Beethoven Violin Concerto - Menuhin

[Barbirollians]

I tend to the view that for all the fallibility of his later years , especially intonation wise - Menuhin got to the heart of this concerto like no other violinist - for all that i love and admire the live Busch , Perlman/Giulini , ASM/Karajan , Haendel , Hahn , Milstein and a number of other accounts .

The 1947 Furtwangler is my favourite , that Lucerne festival performance has a very special charge , the 1953 is very fine too , the 1960 Silvestri - lower voltage but still enjoyable if not on the level of the former two , the unreleased conducted from the violin account is a touch anonymous, the 1963 account with Oistrakh is superb and has a real sense of occasion , the 1966 Testament Klemperer is very fine indeed in the last two movements but the opening movement takes a while to get going . The studio account with Klemperer I have not heard.

I had never heard the 1981 Masur account - briefly available on LP in the 1980s from HMV but have discovered it tonight on youtube. I had assumed that it was a bit of a car crash .

Far from it - although the cathedral acoustic is a bit boomy and there is indeed fallible intonation from time to time - what a magnificent performance this is . It touches my heart like very few others - there is a lifetime's understanding in it and at times he can still take your breath away with the beauty of his playing.

What a shame it has never made it on to CD though it seems that Bernard Keeffe was so taken with it despite its flaws that he made it BAL choice in the 1980s .

PS It is a very spacious account !

[akiralx]

... the 1966 Testament Klemperer is very fine indeed in the last two movements but the opening movement takes a while to get going...

Is this the live one c/w the Symphonie Fantastique - if so, what is your take on the SF performance (I have never heard the studio version)? Sorry to go a bit O/T...

[verismissimo]

My particular favourite these days is Alfredo Campoli with RPO/Pritchard.

But Menuhin/Kempff in the sonatas!

[Barbirollians]

I have only heard the Symphonie Fantastique once - prominent woodwind almost HIPPlike - It packs a punch and builds well towards the final movements as I recall .

That Campoli account of course also has never made it to CD . The Menuhin/Masur is a special one-off account for me probably as it reminds me of seeing him play the concerto as a teenager with Norman del Mar which was a special concert albeit also with some intonation problems .

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What did happen to Menuhin's playing? Up to the time of his 1966 remake of the Elgar Violin Concerto, he was regarded as among the top half dozen in the world.

[Barbirollians]

What did happen to Menuhin's playing? Up to the time of his 1966 remake of the Elgar Violin Concerto, he was regarded as among the top half dozen in the world.

As I understand it he had a bit of a crisis in the late 1950s and 1960s when what had been instinctive became more difficult and it was blamed on him not being taught technically as well as he should have been . From then on he was inconsistent - sometimes still marvellous - the 1959 Brahms with Kempe for example and sometimes with intonation problems .

What this 1981 performance shows is that although there are occasional intonation problems in places - at times he plays magnificently . I think he remained amongst the greatest of players

[pastoralguy]

As I understand it he had a bit of a crisis in the late 1950s and 1960s when what had been instinctive became more difficult and it was blamed on him not being taught technically as well as he should have been . From then on he was inconsistent - sometimes still marvellous - the 1959 Brahms with Kempe for example and sometimes with intonation problems .

What this 1981 performance shows is that although there are occasional intonation problems in places - at times he plays magnificently . I think he remained amongst the greatest of players

My understanding of Menuhin's problems is that it started in his youth. His mother attended all his lessons with his first real teacher, Louis Persinger. She would not allow the young Yehudi to be criticised in any way by his teacher and, on one occasion, insisted that Persinger apologised to the boy after he corrected something. This led Menuhin to neglect scales, studies and student concertos that are the staple of ALL fiddle players from Mr. Heifetz down.

During WW2, Menuhin did a tremendous amount of playing without maintaining his technique. However, I believe that his visits to the concentration camps after the end of the war had an appalling effect on him and I believe he had a complete crisis of, well, everything. People who knew his playing said he was never the same again.

Imho, the young Menuhin was the greatest human ever to put horse tail to cow gut. A true genius.

[Barbirollians]

My understanding of Menuhin's problems is that it started in his youth. His mother attended all his lessons with his first real teacher, Louis Persinger. She would not allow the young Yehudi to be criticised in any way by his teacher and, on one occasion, insisted that Persinger apologised to the boy after he corrected something. This led Menuhin to neglect scales, studies and student concertos that are the staple of ALL fiddle players from Mr. Heifetz down.

During WW2, Menuhin did a tremendous amount of playing without maintaining his technique. However, I believe that his visits to the concentration camps after the end of the war had an appalling effect on him and I believe he had a complete crisis of, well, everything. People who knew his playing said he was never the same again.

Imho, the young Menuhin was the greatest human ever to put horse tail to cow gut. A true genius.

In which case the new icon box collecting many of Menuhin's 1930s recordings will be on your Christmas list I imagine PG ?

[pastoralguy]

In which case the new icon box collecting many of Menuhin's 1930s recordings will be on your Christmas list I imagine PG ?

Actually Barbie, I got a huge 50 cdbox of all of Menuhin's complete EMI recordings a couple of years ago. The problem is that while a lot of the roughness of SOME of his playing may have been softened by vinyl, the laser that is cd simply magnifies his deficiencies. For example, there is a Sibelius concerto with some very rough intonation and sound quality.

Mind you, there is some simply wonderful playing too.

[Barbirollians]

Actually Barbie, I got a huge 50 cdbox of all of Menuhin's complete EMI recordings a couple of years ago. The problem is that while a lot of the roughness of SOME of his playing may have been softened by vinyl, the laser that is cd simply magnifies his deficiencies. For example, there is a Sibelius concerto with some very rough intonation and sound quality.

Mind you, there is some simply wonderful playing too.

I looked at that box but found I had most of the records - and that Menuhin/Masur beethoven was missing too . The Sibelius with Boult sounds ok on my LP from 1986 - from a 70th birthday set that included things like the Lennox Berkeley Concerto and Lekeu and Pizzetti sonatas.

That includes his towering account of the Bloch concerto with Kletzki too.

[richardfinegold]

I have the Furtwangler recording and agree that it is impressive. My favorite of all time is Oistrakh/Cluyttens

[mikealdren]

What did happen to Menuhin's playing? Up to the time of his 1966 remake of the Elgar Violin Concerto, he was regarded as among the top half dozen in the world.

Although he was still highly regarded, his playing was already a shadow of its former self by the 1960s. This was probably partly due to his many other musical interests that kept his name before the public.

I heard him play the Beethoven twice in the early 1970s. Technically he was very fallible but he was still am impressive interpreter and there were moments of magic even then.

Mike

[verismissimo]

My understanding of Menuhin's problems is that it started in his youth. His mother attended all his lessons with his first real teacher, Louis Persinger. She would not allow the young Yehudi to be criticised in any way by his teacher and, on one occasion, insisted that Persinger apologised to the boy after he corrected something. This led Menuhin to neglect scales, studies and student concertos that are the staple of ALL fiddle players from Mr. Heifetz down.

During WW2, Menuhin did a tremendous amount of playing without maintaining his technique. However, I believe that his visits to the concentration camps after the end of the war had an appalling effect on him and I believe he had a complete crisis of, well, everything. People who knew his playing said he was never the same again.

Imho, the young Menuhin was the greatest human ever to put horse tail to cow gut. A true genius.

I'd always understood that he had an arthritic condition, but this may well be wrong and pasty's diagnosis closer to the mark.

[Barbirollians]

I'd always understood that he had an arthritic condition, but this may well be wrong and pasty's diagnosis closer to the mark.

There may be an element of truth in both - the arthritic condition exacerbating the technical issues .

[AmpH]

Re Menuhin's recording with Masur referred to in the OP - I thought it rang a bell. I bought the recording when it came out on an EMI LP :-



I remember particularly liking the cover - one of the advantages of LP's. Must give it a spin as I haven't listened to it in years.