Elgar "Introduction and Allegro" recommendations

[visualnickmos]

Richard, I do not wish to disagree with any of the very knowledgeable and experienced recommendations on the thread so far a number of which I also have, but, if you liked what Haitink and the LPO did with it you might like to investigate their recording of it on the LPO label - http://shop.lpo.org.uk/shop/Recordin...asp?35,0,0,0,0. I looked on Amazon.com but could only find downloads but then that might suit you well. However, you can acquire it as on the link above.

I found this - it may be "the one" http://www.amazon.co.uk/Elgar-Variat...=elgar+haitink

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... which will be relatively free from modern wibbly-wobbly accretions.

...which were current when the work was conceived.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

This is the only version to have.

"Only" is a bit harsh, Bbm - the work merits a couple of different versions. Vernon Handley is very good (with his fine EE Violin Concerto with NK) and Britten is excellent, too. I'd also second ami's thumbs up for the Munch/Boston recording: always an experience to hear Elgar conducted by the best non-British conductors. Marriner & the ASMF is nowadays coupled with Solti's unsurpassed accounts of the Symphonies - the performance works quite well in its own terms, but sounds a bit "functional" when compared with Barbirolli ...

... who really had a special touch with this work. His 1940s recording with the Hallé (on 78s) was how I learnt the work, supplemented later (on LP) with the Sinfonia of London and (on CD) the PYE/NIXA recording (which has a horrible cover). Wonderful, wonderful recordings, all of them - if you only have one recording, either of the later Barbirollis will more than do. But does anyone know his performance with the NYPO, the existence of which I've only just discovered?

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/West%2BHill%2BRadio%2BArchive/WHRA6033

Curious, too, that the composer himself never recorded it.

[Bryn]

... does anyone know his performance with the NYPO, the existence of which I've only just discovered?

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/West%2BHill%2BRadio%2BArchive/WHRA6033

Friend makropulos does, and has a copy up for sale via the amaxon.co.uk marketplace.

[Bryn]

...which were current when the work was conceived.

Premiered in 1905! The distasteful trend of body string vibrato as the fall-back mode of playing did not come into fashion until a couple of decades later, and even then, mainly in France.

The Norrington recording, to which I have just been listening, eschews vibrato in the main string body, reserving it, very tellingly, for the solo lines. Most effective.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

So those Elgar acoustic recordings of 1914 are presumably fakes, or contain selective flutter. And my mother's violin teacher (who played in the Halle at the time of the Elgar 1 premiere) suddenly changed to a new playing style before he taught her.

[Bryn]

Acoustic recordings of that vintage were indeed riddled with flutter, and also relied on considerable re-allocation of parts. Funny how some folk seem to 'hear' the employment of vibrato by whole string sections in these early recordings yet somehow manage to not hear it in modern digital recordings of the Stuttgarters under Norrington's direction, even though its subtle, selective application is there for them to hear if they did but listen, rather than rely on the conductor's provocative pronouncements on the matter. Funnily enough, prior to listening to Norrington's recording of the 1905 Introduction and Allegro this afternoon, I read an online review which assured me there was no vibrato employed in that recorded performance. How could the reviewer have missed its use by the string quartet players. It stands out so clearly against the main body of strings which largely avoid it.

Perhaps the reviewer merely read the booklet notes, which open with a very Cagean quote from Elgar, "I think there is music in the air all around us, that the world is full of music and you take as much of it as you need". Don't worry, those notes are by Eckhardt van den Hoogen, not Roger Norrington.

[Alison]

Yet another work which, it seems to me, is somewhat greater than it can be played.

[cloughie]

Just picked up on this thread - Maybe the older Barbirolli is a better performance but it does not have the luxury of having the Serenade to follow - I grew up thinking they were part of the same work - first with NSOL Collins on Decca then SL Barbirolli. Marriner's is good as is Hickox and if you want to follow the Halle man in JB's shoes there is Mark Elder.

[Bryn]

Yet another work which, it seems to me, is somewhat greater than it can be played.

There is much in what you say there, Alison. My introduction the work was via the Munch recording already referred to. I got that as a flood salvage Spanish RCA mono LP in my early teens (10 shillings). Much later I upgraded it to:



though in the interim I had acquired the Sinfonia of London/Barbirolli and a few others. I have today ordered the Hallé/Barbirolli recording, partly because I hanker after hearing the Nelsova/Hallé/Barbirolli recording of the 'Cello Concerto again. I'll put up with the wobbly stuff where Barbirolli is concerned.

[silvestrione]

There is much in what you say there, Alison. My introduction the work was via the Munch recording already referred to. I got that as a flood salvage Spanish RCA mono LP in my early teens (10 shillings). Much later I upgraded it to:



though in the interim I had acquired the Sinfonia of London/Barbirolli and a few others. I have today ordered the Hallé/Barbirolli recording, partly because I hanker after hearing the Nelsova/Hallé/Barbirolli recording of the 'Cello Concerto again. I'll put up with the wobbly stuff where Barbirolli is concerned.

Eh? It's Andre Navarra on that disc, I believe.
I also would vote for this earlier Barbirolli, in Intro and Allegro, and Enigma Variations.

[Bryn]

Eh? It's Andre Navarra on that disc, I believe.
I also would vote for this earlier Barbirolli, in Intro and Allegro, and Enigma Variations.

Oops, sorry, getting my N... cellists' names in a tangle. Navarra indeed. Used to have it coupled with Falstaff on Pye Golden Guinea, IIRC.

Oh, and regarding the Enigma Variations, that's a work over which I don't hear ear to ear with Sir Roger. He does not 'shape' it to my liking.

[mercia]

the river people seem to have two other JB recordings, a very expensive BBC Legends from the King's Lynn Festival (1970) and one by "The JB Chamber Orchestra", I don't know when that dates from

[richardfinegold]

Richard, I do not wish to disagree with any of the very knowledgeable and experienced recommendations on the thread so far a number of which I also have, but, if you liked what Haitink and the LPO did with it you might like to investigate their recording of it on the LPO label - http://shop.lpo.org.uk/shop/Recordin...asp?35,0,0,0,0. I looked on Amazon.com but could only find downloads but then that might suit you well. However, you can acquire it as on the link above.

Laurie, after I hit the send button on my post, I had the same thought and checked Amazon to see if there was a Haitink recording. I downloaded the recording that you mentioned to my phone and listened to it today on my drive to work. I am now considering whether I should add one of the Barbirolli CDs

[richardfinegold]

So those Elgar acoustic recordings of 1914 are presumably fakes, or contain selective flutter. And my mother's violin teacher (who played in the Halle at the time of the Elgar 1 premiere) suddenly changed to a new playing style before he taught her.

In photos that I have seen of pre WW 1 recordings, the violinists are playing some weird looking contraption that has what looks like a blunderbuss hanging off the instrument where the bridge and body meet. I think it was called a "Stroh Violin" or something like that, and supposedly enhanced string frequencies
for early electrical recording technology. I am not sure that I could base judgements of performance practice regarding violin playing when the musicians had to adjust to playing that kind of a Rube Goldberg contraption, but I would appreciate the insight of more informed forumites than myself.