Bruckner 5th

[richardfinegold]

Is anyone else here collecting the Janowski/Suisse Romande Bruckner cycle on the Pentatone label? It's my first Bruckner recordings in a High Resolution format, and I am really do enjoy being able to appreciate a wealth of subtle detail in the Orchestration that I had previously missed.
Some critics have been hard of Janowski, complaining that he uses very little rubato, takes the scores to literally, and the Bruckner, in particular, tends to benefit from a conductor imposing his/her vision on his music, which, in their opinion, Janowski fails to do.
I didn't feel this was justifiable criticism in the first volumes that I had essayed (Symphonies 6, 7, 8, 9, &4) but now that I have acquired the 5th, after a couple of listenings I am wondering if in this case there is some merit to that complaint. I miss many of the interpretive choices of Horenstein or Jochum, my two other recordings or the work, and there does seem to be a bit of literalness here.

[Arcades Project]

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[Barbirollians]

(I didn't think he'd got round to 4 yet, Richard?) I like Janowski's conducting & the Bruckner performances I've heard haven't sounded unduly literal. Like his Wagner he tends to strip away some of the performing traditions that have attached themselves to the scores - which is fine by me. (A more extreme attempt is Herreweghe's Orchestre des Champs-Elysées period instrument version: that was criticised for lack of 'grandeur' but I wonder how much some of that grandeur is a later accretion).

I've heard Janowski's 5th. It wouldn't displace Abbado, Blomstedt, Harnoncourt or Wand for me, but I think it's splendid. Jochum's Bruckner I don't get on with, so that might be a key to my relative enthusiasm for Janowski.

Welcome back !

Apart from Jochum's BPO 4 and 8 I have never really warmed to his Bruckner either - I found particular difficulty with what seemed like a very episodic Dresden Ninth .

His live Fifth on Tahra with the Concertgebouw is another matter . It has an inexorable quality about it that just unfolds wonderfully and this is a work that I have long struggled with in other performances especially Klemperer and Dohnanyi .

[richardfinegold]

(I didn't think he'd got round to 4 yet, Richard?) I like Janowski's conducting & the Bruckner performances I've heard haven't sounded unduly literal. Like his Wagner he tends to strip away some of the performing traditions that have attached themselves to the scores - which is fine by me. (A more extreme attempt is Herreweghe's Orchestre des Champs-Elysées period instrument version: that was criticised for lack of 'grandeur' but I wonder how much some of that grandeur is a later accretion).

I've heard Janowski's 5th. It wouldn't displace Abbado, Blomstedt, Harnoncourt or Wand for me, but I think it's splendid. Jochum's Bruckner I don't get on with, /Users/richarddfinegold/Desktop/51JYa4Tqs8L._SS30_.jpgso that might be a key to my relative enthusiasm for Janowski.

Janowski recorded the 4th with a French Orchestra many years ago. I had downloaded an mp3 version which I am using as a "placeholder" until the Pentatone series gets around to the 4th.
I just listened to Karajan's 5th on DG yesterday. While the playing of the Suisse Romande for Janowski is very good, and stunningly recorded, there is just no comparison. The Berlin strings are achingly beautiful.
I'll be listening to the Janowski 5th some more, but I have found it a bit disappointing after his 6-9, which have displaced my previous favorites.

[richardfinegold]

Welcome back !

Apart from Jochum's BPO 4 and 8 I have never really warmed to his Bruckner either - I found particular difficulty with what seemed like a very episodic Dresden Ninth .

His live Fifth on Tahra with the Concertgebouw is another matter . It has an inexorable quality about it that just unfolds wonderfully and this is a work that I have long struggled with in other performances especially Klemperer and Dohnanyi .

Jochum's Dresden cycle was my introduction to Bruckner and for many years the only version of these pieces that I owned. I don't listen to them much these days but that is mainly because I have been exploring alternatives. Wand was the Conductor for me that really seemed to reveal the greatness of Bruckner.

[Arcades Project]

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[Oliver]

I heard a wonderful Haitink 5 at The Proms many years ago. I now enjoy Barenboim's perfomance, though the recording isn't the best. It was the top recommendation on CD Review.

However, I've heard excerpts from Janowski's version and I am impressed. I like the cleaner, purer sound he gets from his players. I suspect that we are entering a new performing tradition for both Bruckner and Mahler.

[amateur51]

I heard a wonderful Haitink 5 at The Proms many years ago. I now enjoy Barenboim's perfomance, though the recording isn't the best. It was the top recommendation on CD Review.

However, I've heard excerpts from Janowski's version and I am impressed. I like the cleaner, purer sound he gets from his players. I suspect that we are entering a new performing tradition for both Bruckner and Mahler.

I heard the excerpts of the Janowski recording that Andrew McGregor played on CD Review a few months ago too Oliver and I was impressed - it's on the list.

[BeethovensQuill]

I have only recently, in the last few months heard Bruckner's 5th, i bought the Janowski first but then went for the new Paavo Jarvi recording on RCA and the Haitink with the BRSO. Jarvi does the adagio too quickly but otherwise is a very good recording, i have just recently aquired Jarvi's recording of the 4th which isnt out here for awhile but got it from musicjapan and for me thats gone to the top of my list as regards the 4th.

Overall i prefer the Haitink 5th as the finale is better paced and the last 9 minutes really feel like you've reached the top of the mountain. I have to say though at the moment i still haven't quite clicked with the 5th like i have with 4,6,7,8 and 9, does anyone else feel that the 5th scherzo just goes on a bit long? I think Janowski felt that and thats why he does it quicker than most. The scherzo does tend to repeat itself a bit too much for me. Also i find the material that Bruckner comes up with for the fugue doesnt quite take off for me. It could be that this time next year once the symphony has had time to settle in i'll change my mind. I really want to get the Karajan 5th but have to buy the box to get it, the way karajan does the adagio is really something special.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I really want to get the Karajan 5th but have to buy the box to get it, the way karajan does the adagio is really something special.

It is, indeed!

If you don't mind second-hand, it's still available at around a tenner:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bruckner-Symphonies-Nos-1-5/dp/B00000E33Y/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1375027235&sr=1-4&keywords=bruckner+5%2C+karajan

[scottycelt]

.

Is anyone else here collecting the Janowski/Suisse Romande Bruckner cycle on the Pentatone label? It's my first Bruckner recordings in a High Resolution format, and I am really do enjoy being able to appreciate a wealth of subtle detail in the Orchestration that I had previously missed.
Some critics have been hard of Janowski, complaining that he uses very little rubato, takes the scores to literally, and the Bruckner, in particular, tends to benefit from a conductor imposing his/her vision on his music, which, in their opinion, Janowski fails to do.
I didn't feel this was justifiable criticism in the first volumes that I had essayed (Symphonies 6, 7, 8, 9, &4) but now that I have acquired the 5th, after a couple of listenings I am wondering if in this case there is some merit to that complaint. I miss many of the interpretive choices of Horenstein or Jochum, my two other recordings or the work, and there does seem to be a bit of literalness here.

Thanks for this, richard ... the Janowski seems well worth exploring!

There are so many fine recordings of this massive symphony that one is spoilt for choice though I've tended to Jochum in recent years as he, more than any other conductor I know, seems to bring out the crucial 'earthiness' in the composer's music. Robert Simpson referred to the 'stick it up yer jumper' moments in this particular symphony!

Only last month, whilst exploring YouTube, I discovered this live video of Kurt Eichhorn & The Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra recorded at St Florian in 1990.

This is the Bruckner I love ... grand, majestic, sublime, tender, dogmatic, hesitant, quirky, humourous, joyful, sorrowful, heavenly, earthy, all rolled into one truly glorious masterpiece!

Maybe this account is not to every Brucknerian's taste, but it certainly does it for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K495DqV88i4

[richardfinegold]

.




Thanks for this, richard ... the Janowski seems well worth exploring!

There are so many fine recordings of this massive symphony that one is spoilt for choice though I've tended to Jochum in recent years as he, more than any other conductor I know, seems to bring out the crucial 'earthiness' in the composer's music. Robert Simpson referred to the 'stick it up yer jumper' moments in this particular symphony!

Only last month, whilst exploring YouTube, I discovered this live video of Kurt Eichhorn & The Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra recorded at St Florian in 1990.

This is the Bruckner I love ... grand, majestic, sublime, tender, dogmatic, hesitant, quirky, humourous, joyful, sorrowful, heavenly, earthy, all rolled into one truly glorious masterpiece!

Maybe this account is not to every Brucknerian's taste, but it certainly does it for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K495DqV88i4

I'm not a big fan of listening on You Tube (and I was shocked to learn that more people listen to music via you tube than via any other medium) but I will have to check this out. I will be vacationing in austria in a few weeks and am hoping to get to St. Florian. I am also listening to Jochum's 5th right now. It was my first
and only recording of the piece for many years but I have been exploring many alternatives. I am struck by how "right" it sounds. Perhaps this recording imprinted the work on my brain and nothing else will compete for me, but I do think that Jochum had the measure of this piece.

[Stanfordian]

Is anyone else here collecting the Janowski/Suisse Romande Bruckner cycle on the Pentatone label? It's my first Bruckner recordings in a High Resolution format, and I am really do enjoy being able to appreciate a wealth of subtle detail in the Orchestration that I had previously missed.
Some critics have been hard of Janowski, complaining that he uses very little rubato, takes the scores to literally, and the Bruckner, in particular, tends to benefit from a conductor imposing his/her vision on his music, which, in their opinion, Janowski fails to do.
I didn't feel this was justifiable criticism in the first volumes that I had essayed (Symphonies 6, 7, 8, 9, &4) but now that I have acquired the 5th, after a couple of listenings I am wondering if in this case there is some merit to that complaint. I miss many of the interpretive choices of Horenstein or Jochum, my two other recordings or the work, and there does seem to be a bit of literalness here.

In Bruckner 5th I always return to the live account from the quietly assured Gunter Wand conducting the Berlin Philharmonicer on RCA. Also admire the accounts from the Dresden Staatskapelle under Sinopoli on DG, Haitink live with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra on BR Klassik and Jochum also with the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra on DG.

[Karafan]

My favourite Bruckner 5, by a very long chalk, is from the Munich PO under Kempe - coupled with an equally seminal 4th. Now, sadly, rather hard to find at a reasonable price, snap it up if you do stumble on it anywhere! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-4-5...kempe+bruckner

[richardfinegold]

My favourite Bruckner 5, by a very long chalk, is from the Munich PO under Kempe - coupled with an equally seminal 4th. Now, sadly, rather hard to find at a reasonable price, snap it up if you do stumble on it anywhere! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphony-4-5...kempe+bruckner

interesting; I have never heard any Bruckner by Kempe