Dorati- Tchaikovsky

[Dave2002]

I have these Double Deccas (DD) and I have noted that Berkshire Record Outlet here in the states is selling them very cheaply. The whole set is quite enjoyable, but the 6th has always held a special spot in my affection. Be aware that these DD do not contain the 9th, which Monteux apparently was not allowed to record for Decca, but instead for an Independent Label (it was released in the States on Westminster). There is also an Amsterdam Eroica from 1962, and I believe that is all the stereo Monteux Beethoven available.

Currently Berkshire is only showing the VPO 1,3,6 and 8 twofer for $9.98. Have you ever been to that store? It's quite an interesting trip - just down the road from the Red Lion in Stockbridge, and IIRC Sheffield is a bit further on.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Getting back to Dorati, his two Mercury 1812 recordings rank among the most famous of all time, the early mono one being, I think, the first one ever to use real cannons (which is unHIPP as Tchaikovsky had to make do with a bass drum).

[visualnickmos]

Did Monteux do a Beethoven 9th in said Decca series?

[richardfinegold]

Getting back to Dorati, his two Mercury 1812 recordings rank among the most famous of all time, the early mono one being, I think, the first one ever to use real cannons (which is unHIPP as Tchaikovsky had to make do with a bass drum).

I have the original mono LP, and you should see what the grooves look like when the canon is fired. Many cartridges of the time couldn't track it, from what I've read.
The stereo version is in this second box, and it's quite exciting.

[richardfinegold]

Did Monteux do a Beethoven 9th in said Decca series?

No, that was the point I made in a previous post, and I probably wan't very clear. I had read somewhere that Decca didn't okay the 9th, for some reason, and Monteux was mighty upset. He was offered the chance to record it for an independent label and jumped. My Westminster reissue lists the recording date as 1963, but I think it may have been earlier than that. Orchestra is the LSO, Soloists are Soderstrom, Resnick, Vickers, and Ward.

[visualnickmos]

Thanks, Richard (if I may be so bold as to use your first name) for clearing that up.

It's a pity he couldn't complete the set for Decca, but the Westminster recording must be wonderful with such an august selection of soloists. I would guess it never made it to CD?

[Dave2002]

Thanks, Richard (if I may be so bold as to use your first name) for clearing that up.

It's a pity he couldn't complete the set for Decca, but the Westminster recording must be wonderful with such an august selection of soloists. I would guess it never made it to CD?

It did make it to CD, and I have a copy.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I do suggest we stick to Dorati. Starting a separate Monteux thread would be an option.

[Dave2002]

I do suggest we stick to Dorati. Starting a separate Monteux thread would be an option.

Seems fair. Dorati's Nutcracker - I think he did several - is good too. Another Dorati ballet which I have enjoyed in the past is Stravinsky's Firebird - not quite Tchaikovsky, but Stravinsky's early work clearly owes a lot to the earlier composer. Otherwise what was he well known for? The Haydn symphony series was, at the time, ground breaking. The 1812 recording has been mentioned already. What else? Do we have to stick to Mercury recordings?

[Madame Suggia]

His recording of Sleeping Beauty with the Concertgebouw is rather special too.

Must give it a spin tomorrow :)

[richardfinegold]

Thanks, Richard (if I may be so bold as to use your first name) for clearing that up.

It's a pity he couldn't complete the set for Decca, but the Westminster recording must be wonderful with such an august selection of soloists. I would guess it never made it to CD?

As Dave mentioned, it is on CD. I have to say that it is a bit of a disappointment, very dimly recorded and a little low voltage in the first two movements. The last two movements fare better. This would be a prime candidate for the likes of Dutton or Andrew Rose of Pristine to see what magic they could work from the original sources.
And now, back to Dorati...

[richardfinegold]

Seems fair. Dorati's Nutcracker - I think he did several - is good too. Another Dorati ballet which I have enjoyed in the past is Stravinsky's Firebird - not quite Tchaikovsky, but Stravinsky's early work clearly owes a lot to the earlier composer. Otherwise what was he well known for? The Haydn symphony series was, at the time, ground breaking. The 1812 recording has been mentioned already. What else? Do we have to stick to Mercury recordings?

I've been working my way through the second large Mercury reissue box, and there are a batch of discs devoted to Dorati, and that has been what I have been posting about, but i don't care where the discussion goes. As i have mentioned elsewhere, Dorati holds a special place in my affections because he revitalized the Detroit Symphony 30 years ago when I was a student there. I attended many concerts and quite a few open rehearsals.
In the recording studio, his main achievements, IMO, were the Haydn recordings (quite possibly the first recordings for 70 or so, symphonies and which still stand up well, unless you absolutely must have HIP recordings); his ballet recordings , which I think are second to none (Tchaikovsky, Bartok, Stravinsky, primarily); and many of his Bartok recordings (except MSFPC), no doubt benefiting from his close association with the Composer.
This Mercury box is demonstrating what a great range he had. I really like the balletic treatment that he gives the Tchaikovsky Symphonies. The discs devoted to American Composers are superb (Dorati conducted a lot of American Music during his Detroit years, and at the time I thought it was a sop to the locals, but I now realize that he had a long standing relations with Composers such as Copland). The offerings of him conducting French Music in this box are
limited (I suspect that Paul Paray and the Detroit SO had that concession for Mercury) but the one disc is excellent. I am headed for the Beethoven discs in the set, but in order to play them I will have to stop listening to he Tchaikovsky Symphonies, which have really entranced me. Decisions, decisions.

[Ferretfancy]

As I said in earlier comments on the Mercury boxes, there are some inexplicable Dorati omissions, particularly his performances of the first three Tchaikovsky symphonies, and his superb version of Rimsky Korsakov's Capriccio Espagnol, Suite from Le Coq d'Or and Russian Easter Festival Overture, all with the LSO in Walthamstow Town Hall. This is one of the very best Mercury recordings marvellously played.

I reckon that there are enough missing items to make a smaller Volume 3.

[cloughie]

As I said in earlier comments on the Mercury boxes, there are some inexplicable Dorati omissions, particularly his performances of the first three Tchaikovsky symphonies, and his superb version of Rimsky Korsakov's Capriccio Espagnol, Suite from Le Coq d'Or and Russian Easter Festival Overture, all with the LSO in Walthamstow Town Hall. This is one of the very best Mercury recordings marvellously played.

I reckon that there are enough missing items to make a smaller Volume 3.

here are still a number of Mercury recordings which have not been issued on CD eg the Borodin Sym2/Firebird Suite (MinSO) and the mono Rite of Spring is only available in the big Rite box. There is also a complete Daphnis and Chloe. Too many duplications for me to have bought the Mercury boxes - I scooped up most of individual CDs as they appeared!

[Ferretfancy]

here are still a number of Mercury recordings which have not been issued on CD eg the Borodin Sym2/Firebird Suite (MinSO) and the mono Rite of Spring is only available in the big Rite box. There is also a complete Daphnis and Chloe. Too many duplications for me to have bought the Mercury boxes - I scooped up most of individual CDs as they appeared!

Cloughie

Do you have the complete Daphnis ? There is of course the 2nd Suite with Paray, but I don't remember a complete version on Mercury, not even in the days of LP.

I've had another search online, but have not found it. Incidentally there's a splendid Paray Wagner disc which Fanfare incorrectly states has only become available recently as a download, but it is on CD and is terrific.