Wagner boxes

[Roehre]

Ok quick question.

A cheapskate writes.......

Complete Wagner beginner. (well the serious stuff).
Would like to buy a bottom end price Ring for listening in the car, (time, job to do, etc).
Any virtue in real cheapies like this?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nibelungen-Rhinegold-Valkyrie-Siegfried-Twilight/dp/B000GUK04A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373383125&sr=8-1&keywords=wagner+ring

Go for it. I got this set (a bit more expensive, in 4 jewel boxes) shortly after its first release mid 1990s, and I enjoyed in tremendously. It's live, so following the closing bars of every act there is some applause, but the stage noise is minimal and certainly not disturbing. Those years back I recall I was first impressed by the 2nd Rheingold CD, the 1st and 4th Walküre (the 1st and 3rd acts that is), the 2nd and 4th Siegfried, and the 4th Götterdämmerung. The English text gives a good impression of what's going on on the stage, but I certainly would advise you to get some idea in your head what the story is about, as that helps very well to understand and appreciate the music.
(And please note that I am not a Wagnerian (I love his music, but that's it), and not really "into" opera in general )

[Dave2002]

Ok quick question.
Complete Wagner beginner. (well the serious stuff).
Would like to buy a bottom end price Ring for listening in the car, (time, job to do, etc).
Any virtue in real cheapies like this?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nibelungen-Rhinegold-Valkyrie-Siegfried-Twilight/dp/B000GUK04A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373383125&sr=8-1&keywords=wagner+ring

I agree with Roehre - I have got copies of that set, some of which I bought for as little as £2.99 (Superdrug). If you want to save money though, I'd suggest the Thielemann download is better still - certainly cost wise, and the performances seem very good too. If you have a car CD player which will "do" MP3s it'd be quite easy to put that download onto MP3 CDs.

The next stage, which I've only really turned to again recently, is that having spent days driving around and listening all the way through to those CDs, I then heard some excerpts from versions by Solti, and also I think Barenboim, which made me think that I should have started with them. The set is a good starter set, and then if you decide you like it all, you can investigate others.

[teamsaint]

Thanks Roehre, your recommendation is good enough !

You seem to know where I am coming from !! trouble is with all the other stuff I want to listen to, and other time constraints, Sitting down at home with this music just doesn't seem to happen.I really enjoyed what I heard of the ENO version, but much of my time is spent behind the wheel, so your advice about getting the general idea of the action first is clearly a good one.
So many people are so into this stuff, or have been at some point, that its got to be worth having a proper bash !

[Roehre]

...The next stage, which I've only really turned to again recently, is that having spent days driving around and listening all the way through to those CDs, I then heard some excerpts from versions by Solti, and also I think Barenboim, which made me think that I should have started with them. The set is a good starter set, and then if you decide you like it all, you can investigate others.

that's how it went with me too -

[teamsaint]

went for it.
So If you are parked up in a lay by on the A303 this summer, and suddenly hear Rheingold hammering out of the open window of a passing repmobile, that could well be me !!

Although noise pollution is bad, obviously.

[Madame Suggia]

I've got the superdrug set too and it's very useful for dipping into.

I must put a word in for the Bohm set which is a wonderful live recording and now a lot cheaper than the £75 I paid for it in the mid 90's

[Karafan]

Note that the Bohm Ring has finally been remastered and is available very cheaply.

The sparkling, brand spanking new German remastering of the old favourite Bohm cycle - the slight reconfiguration discwise is worth putting up with for the improved sound (of what always was a very decently recorded set).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00AX20AHI/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Dave2002]

Is alll the music there? 14 CDs down to 12 CDs.

[Karafan]

Is alll the music there? 14 CDs down to 12 CDs.

Oh, yes Dave - from Stewart Crowe's review "On the slightly downside, the discs have been reduced from 14 to 12 meaning that the works "run into each other", especially Siegfried and Gotterdammerung". A minor cavil
really at this price, but there we are.

K.

[Petrushka]

1958 was Kna's last Ring Cycle at Bayreuth, and it deserves to be heard. There are a few variations in casting in the 1958 Ring - Frans Anderssen as Alberich is excellent.
The Rheingold and Siegfried were always difficult for Kna when he was not quite in the mood, but here he is on top form - he knew it was his last cycle and he decided to give it everything. All the normal Stalwarts are in fine form - Hotter, Varnay and Windgassen are tremendous.
The Walküre has Jon Vickers Bayreuth debut and he is sensational.
Some unusual casting in RG - Fritz Uhl as Loge is good, and the young Theo Adam (still as bass) as Fasolt.
I like this cycle - I always have.
The 1960 Kempe Cycle is a totally different kettle of fish. Kempe was, and still is my ideal Ring conductor - he conducted it at Covent Garden from 1955 until 1960 and in Bayreuth from 1960 to 1963.
The problem with the 1960 Cycle for some people is the casting. This was Wolfgang Wagner's first ever Ring and he wanted it to be as different as possible from his brother's
celebrated cycles, and that began with the casting.
Jerome Hines was cast as Wotan/Wanderer but could only learn the Walküre in time (he is very good) so that left Wolfgang with the problem of finding different singers for the
Wotan roles. He never really got it absolutely right -in 1960 Wotan(RG) and the Wanderer were sung by Hermann Ühde - I like him but it is an acquired taste.
Siegmund was sung by Windgassen - a role he disliked singing too often(it lay too low for his voice) and Siegfried(both) by Hans Hopf.
Nilsson sings the Siegfried/Götterdämmerung and Varnay for Walküre.
Gottlob Frick is a huge bonus as Hunding and Hagen and Otakar Kraus (Kempe's london Alberich) brings his great interpretation to Bayreuth - probably the best Alberich of them all.


Kempe was very unhappy with the Bayreuth set-up and tried(unsuccessfully) to have the shell over the pit removed. He never himself believed that he got it right at Bayreuth because he could not hear the overall as one could in other opera houses. However, the radio broadcasts are proof positive of how well he did conduct.
The 1960 cycle is so different to most others(even against Kempe's own 1957 CG cycle - issued on testament) it deserves to be heard.
I do not hesitate to recommend this to anyone. Kempe was famous for producing a wonderful overall conception of the Ring with the ability to scale the music down to an almost chamber quality when required.
Of all the live Ring recordings I have, and I have every Bayreuth Ring from 1952 to 1989 plus all the London Rings and many more from around the globe,
I would give Kempe's 1960 Ring a place in my top 5 all time Ring Cycles. Knappertsbusch 1958 would come in at no 8 or 9. I prefer his 1956 cycle.

Try the 1960 - the sound quality is excellent.

Thanks very much for a most informative post. Looks like the only option is to get both Knappertsbusch and Kempe!

[Karafan]

Thanks very much for a most informative post. Looks like the only option is to get both Knappertsbusch and Kempe!

Quite agree with Slarty on the Kempe 1960 Ring (Kna '56 is great too, he is in top form in the pit.)

That notwithstanding, I still have an enduring soft spot for Krauss '53; go mad why don't you & cough-up the extra for the revealingly remastered Orfeo from the broadcast mastertapes. You'll get Varnay in blistering form and Ramon Vinay's rich, dark, deeply-felt and superbly nuanced Siegmund, which isn't to be exactly sniffed-at, either! Just imagine: Vinay and Resnik as the Wälsung twins - oh, for casting like that today! Drawing the whole thing together, Krauss' innate sense of natural ebb and flow is also quite peerless. A breathing, living performance. Yes, you could argue I have too many Rings!

Petrushka - this edition of the 1960 Kempe is perhaps not the one to go for given its *ahem* price tag! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ring-Des-Nib...pe+wagner+ring I have it on Golden Melodram and very good it is.

Karafan

[Petrushka]

Quite agree with Slarty on the Kempe 1960 Ring (Kna '56 is great too, he is in top form in the pit.)

That notwithstanding, I still have an enduring soft spot for Krauss '53; go mad why don't you & cough-up the extra for the revealingly remastered Orfeo from the broadcast mastertapes. You'll get Varnay in blistering form and Ramon Vinay's rich, dark, deeply-felt and superbly nuanced Siegmund, which isn't to be exactly sniffed-at, either! Just imagine: Vinay and Resnik as the Wälsung twins - oh, for casting like that today! Drawing the whole thing together, Krauss' innate sense of natural ebb and flow is also quite peerless. A breathing, living performance. Yes, you could argue I have too many Rings!

Petrushka - this edition of the 1960 Kempe is perhaps not the one to go for given its *ahem* price tag! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ring-Des-Nib...pe+wagner+ring I have it on Golden Melodram and very good it is.

Karafan

I was thinking of the MYTO sets featured in the Presto offer: http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/sea...ing=kempe+ring

[Karafan]

I was thinking of the MYTO sets featured in the Presto offer: http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/sea...ing=kempe+ring

Definitely, Petrushka - very reasonably priced, in fact a 'no-brainer'. The Myto issues I have bought recently have been very decent transfers. You'll enjoy this cycle greatly I think Enjoy!

K.

[Dave2002]

Oh, yes Dave - from Stewart Crowe's review "On the slightly downside, the discs have been reduced from 14 to 12 meaning that the works "run into each other", especially Siegfried and Gotterdammerung". A minor cavil
really at this price, but there we are.

K.

Presumably if the tracks are ripped to hard drive, this problem can be overcome. It's only if the CDs are played "as is" that this "feature" manifests itself.

Am I right?

Alternatively, a further £9 gets the 14 CD set, which is presumably still cheaper than it was some time back.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wagner-Nibelungen-Orchester-Bayreuther-Festspiele/dp/B003Y3MYYU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373436225&sr=8-1&keywords=wagner+ring+böhm

PS: The more expensive box also gets the AutoRip feature at Amazon. It's not clear that the cheaper set does.

[akiralx]

The sparkling, brand spanking new German remastering of the old favourite Bohm cycle - the slight reconfiguration discwise is worth putting up with for the improved sound (of what always was a very decently recorded set).
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

A couple of contrary comments about the AMSI remastering on the Bohm Ring from the SACD.Net forum:

I'd like very much to believe that recent remastering of Boehm's Bayreuth Ring is an improvement over the previous RBCD issues, but the remastering has been done with Decca's AMSI (Ambient Surround Imaging). The few previous releases I've heard on Decca Eloquence (not to be confused with the very good Australian Eloquence label) that have been remastered with AMSI are very nearly unlistenable: Simultaneously harsh and diffuse, with exaggerated stereo separation, and increased distortion in heavily modulated passages.

I too heard some AMSI mastered Decca Eloquence re -releases long ago. As you say absolutely horrible. Nothing whatsoever to do with accurate and hi res sound imo.
Cheap tricks to fake ambience air and and acoustic information that went missing when good analogue originals where transferred to low res rbcd. Fake surround.
If that is what's been done to the quite good analogue masters they are imho to be avoided by anyone who relishes good and accurate SQ.