Wagner boxes

[Dave2002]

I was somewhat dismissive of Wagner recently, when looking at the MP3 issue of Thielemann's RIng. However, having downloaded that, I found that I was starting to enjoy bits of it. Also, I have long enjoyed the Flying Dutchman - in Keilberth's Bayreuth version.

I did buy the EMI Great Operas of Verdi, and now I thought I'd look at Wagner too. The EMI box is still good value at Amazon - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wagner-Great...r+great+operas

Then I started looking at other boxes, and there are quite a number of them, and indeed the prices are really quite low, considering the number of CDs in each box. We had a thread recently about boxes, where it was commented that the price per CD in most boxes these days is really rather low, and that we might be at the end of an era, almost a golden age, regarding buying music in CD formats.

Possibles are:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wagner-Operas-Georg-Solti/dp/B008H29YVY/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1373307730&sr=1-3&keywords=wagner+box+set+Solti

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wagner-Complete-Operas-Various-Artists/dp/B00980IA3M/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1373307804&sr=1-3&keywords=wagner+box+set

I probably won't be converted completely to Wagner - life isn't long enough for that - but there are boxes out there which would make acquiring a knowledge of and experiencing Wagner's music relatively easy for anyone who has a moderate amount to spend.

Which Wagner boxes would anyone else consider?

[Parry1912]

The EMI box is consistently fine and can be strongly recommended.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Cheaper than either box you mention is this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wagner-Great-Operas-Bayreuth-Festival/dp/B00159679S/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1373308873&sr=1-2&keywords=wagner+bayreuth

... which contains one of the best Ring Cycles ever recorded, one of the best Tristans, very good Dutchman, Lohengrin and Tannhauser ... and rather poor Meistersingers and Parsifal.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The EMI box is consistently fine and can be strongly recommended.

You're right - and it's even cheaper than the Bayreuth box:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wagner-Great-Opera-Various-Artists/dp/B008YKRRJU/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_h__1

- the Meistersingers here is superb!

EDIT:<doh> I missed your reference to this in the OP! (It would be charitable not to ask ) As you have the Bayreuth set on download, I would recommend this EMI set - as well as the excellent Mastersingers, there's (one of) the best recording(s) of Lohengrin, and Sawallisch's Ring is (one of) the best thing(s) he ever did on record. The Parsifal looks good, too!

[Dave2002]

Cheaper than either box you mention is this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wagner-Great-Operas-Bayreuth-Festival/dp/B00159679S/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1373308873&sr=1-2&keywords=wagner+bayreuth

... which contains one of the best Ring Cycles ever recorded, one of the best Tristans, very good Dutchman, Lohengrin and Tannhauser ... and rather poor Meistersingers and Parsifal.

I think that one used to cost a lot more, and is the "set" i picked up as a cheap download (well, cheap at the time ...) a year or two back. At under £50 for the CDs it is good.

[Petrushka]

This is for the real enthusiast and at a ridiculously low price!http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wagners-Visi...reuth+heritage

I'm thinking of supplementing the Knappertsbusch 1958 Walküre and Kempe 1960 Gotterdammerung given here with the remainder of their respective cycles but not sure which one to go for. Plenty of recommendations for both on Amazon. Anybody care to offer an opinion?

[gurnemanz]

This is for the real enthusiast and at a ridiculously low price!http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wagners-Visi...reuth+heritage

I'm thinking of supplementing the Knappertsbusch 1958 Walküre and Kempe 1960 Gotterdammerung given here with the remainder of their respective cycles but not sure which one to go for. Plenty of recommendations for both on Amazon. Anybody care to offer an opinion?

I've got that marvellous Wagner's Vision Box and am also enjoying working through this cheapo Lauritz Melchior collection

[Petrushka]

I've got that marvellous Wagner's Vision Box and am also enjoying working through this cheapo Lauritz Melchior collection

Yes, I remember you had the Wagner's Vision set and think it was your enthusiasm for it that made me purchase it Any thoughts on the Kna or Kempe Ring cycles?

[slarty]

1958 was Kna's last Ring Cycle at Bayreuth, and it deserves to be heard. There are a few variations in casting in the 1958 Ring - Frans Anderssen as Alberich is excellent.
The Rheingold and Siegfried were always difficult for Kna when he was not quite in the mood, but here he is on top form - he knew it was his last cycle and he decided to give it everything. All the normal Stalwarts are in fine form - Hotter, Varnay and Windgassen are tremendous.
The Walküre has Jon Vickers Bayreuth debut and he is sensational.
Some unusual casting in RG - Fritz Uhl as Loge is good, and the young Theo Adam (still as bass) as Fasolt.
I like this cycle - I always have.
The 1960 Kempe Cycle is a totally different kettle of fish. Kempe was, and still is my ideal Ring conductor - he conducted it at Covent Garden from 1955 until 1960 and in Bayreuth from 1960 to 1963.
The problem with the 1960 Cycle for some people is the casting. This was Wolfgang Wagner's first ever Ring and he wanted it to be as different as possible from his brother's
celebrated cycles, and that began with the casting.
Jerome Hines was cast as Wotan/Wanderer but could only learn the Walküre in time (he is very good) so that left Wolfgang with the problem of finding different singers for the
Wotan roles. He never really got it absolutely right -in 1960 Wotan(RG) and the Wanderer were sung by Hermann Ühde - I like him but it is an acquired taste.
Siegmund was sung by Windgassen - a role he disliked singing too often(it lay too low for his voice) and Siegfried(both) by Hans Hopf.
Nilsson sings the Siegfried/Götterdämmerung and Varnay for Walküre.
Gottlob Frick is a huge bonus as Hunding and Hagen and Otakar Kraus (Kempe's london Alberich) brings his great interpretation to Bayreuth - probably the best Alberich of them all.


Kempe was very unhappy with the Bayreuth set-up and tried(unsuccessfully) to have the shell over the pit removed. He never himself believed that he got it right at Bayreuth because he could not hear the overall as one could in other opera houses. However, the radio broadcasts are proof positive of how well he did conduct.
The 1960 cycle is so different to most others(even against Kempe's own 1957 CG cycle - issued on testament) it deserves to be heard.
I do not hesitate to recommend this to anyone. Kempe was famous for producing a wonderful overall conception of the Ring with the ability to scale the music down to an almost chamber quality when required.
Of all the live Ring recordings I have, and I have every Bayreuth Ring from 1952 to 1989 plus all the London Rings and many more from around the globe,
I would give Kempe's 1960 Ring a place in my top 5 all time Ring Cycles. Knappertsbusch 1958 would come in at no 8 or 9. I prefer his 1956 cycle.

Try the 1960 - the sound quality is excellent.

[akiralx]

Note that the Bohm Ring has finally been remastered and is available very cheaply.

[amateur51]

1958 was Kna's last Ring Cycle at Bayreuth, and it deserves to be heard. There are a few variations in casting in the 1958 Ring - Frans Anderssen as Alberich is excellent.
The Rheingold and Siegfried were always difficult for Kna when he was not quite in the mood, but here he is on top form - he knew it was his last cycle and he decided to give it everything. All the normal Stalwarts are in fine form - Hotter, Varnay and Windgassen are tremendous.
The Walküre has Jon Vickers Bayreuth debut and he is sensational.
Some unusual casting in RG - Fritz Uhl as Loge is good, and the young Theo Adam (still as bass) as Fasolt.
I like this cycle - I always have.
The 1960 Kempe Cycle is a totally different kettle of fish. Kempe was, and still is my ideal Ring conductor - he conducted it at Covent Garden from 1955 until 1960 and in Bayreuth from 1960 to 1963.
The problem with the 1960 Cycle for some people is the casting. This was Wolfgang Wagner's first ever Ring and he wanted it to be as different as possible from his brother's
celebrated cycles, and that began with the casting.
Jerome Hines was cast as Wotan/Wanderer but could only learn the Walküre in time (he is very good) so that left Wolfgang with the problem of finding different singers for the
Wotan roles. He never really got it absolutely right -in 1960 Wotan(RG) and the Wanderer were sung by Hermann Ühde - I like him but it is an acquired taste.
Siegmund was sung by Windgassen - a role he disliked singing too often(it lay too low for his voice) and Siegfried(both) by Hans Hopf.
Nilsson sings the Siegfried/Götterdämmerung and Varnay for Walküre.
Gottlob Frick is a huge bonus as Hunding and Hagen and Otakar Kraus (Kempe's london Alberich) brings his great interpretation to Bayreuth - probably the best Alberich of them all.


Kempe was very unhappy with the Bayreuth set-up and tried(unsuccessfully) to have the shell over the pit removed. He never himself believed that he got it right at Bayreuth because he could not hear the overall as one could in other opera houses. However, the radio broadcasts are proof positive of how well he did conduct.
The 1960 cycle is so different to most others(even against Kempe's own 1957 CG cycle - issued on testament) it deserves to be heard.
I do not hesitate to recommend this to anyone. Kempe was famous for producing a wonderful overall conception of the Ring with the ability to scale the music down to an almost chamber quality when required.
Of all the live Ring recordings I have, and I have every Bayreuth Ring from 1952 to 1989 plus all the London Rings and many more from around the globe,
I would give Kempe's 1960 Ring a place in my top 5 all time Ring Cycles. Knappertsbusch 1958 would come in at no 8 or 9. I prefer his 1956 cycle.

Try the 1960 - the sound quality is excellent.

As always inspirational thoughts on rare material - many thanks slarty

[verismissimo]

... I probably won't be converted completely to Wagner - life isn't long enough for that...

No, no, no. How wrong you can be, Dave. Life is too short to miss out on Wagner.

[Beef Oven]

No, no, no. How wrong you can be, Dave. Life is too short to miss out on Wagner.

And does Wagner really take so much of our time?

[slarty]

Wagner takes as much of our time as one wants to give it. There are people, I believe that love gardening, I don't hold to it myself, but I don't have a problem with others who spend all their time gardening, If people don't like Wagner then fine - don't listen to it.

[teamsaint]

Ok quick question.

A cheapskate writes.......

Complete Wagner beginner. (well the serious stuff).
Would like to buy a bottom end price Ring for listening in the car, (time, job to do, etc).
Any virtue in real cheapies like this?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nibelungen-Rhinegold-Valkyrie-Siegfried-Twilight/dp/B000GUK04A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373383125&sr=8-1&keywords=wagner+ring

Try to be kind in your responses, Wagner lovers.
Cheers.