New Mahler releases

[pastoralguy]

I was working last saturday and have only now got to listen to the mini-disc of the discussion.


Good backward and forward conversation form Mr Seckerson and King Andrew BUT no mention of ANY version by Ida Haendel.

A stewards inquiry is required...

[Cellini]

Ida's version is just coming out on DVD. (And Red-O-Ray*) She had to recover from falling off the rostrum as they couldn't see her and so she stood on a box that was a bit rickerty ...

* Remember those strings??

[PJPJ]

Ida down, then......

[Cellini]

She's got the measure of old man Rattle and she's never been rattled ... and she has studied music properly ... and she has not got cloth ears.

[silvestrione]

She's got the measure of old man Rattle and she's never been rattled ... and she has studied music properly ... and she has not got cloth ears.

What is the purpose of this? It's certainly not funny. You remind me of those overly partisan (usually ignorant) home fans who shout insults at the referee when a decision has gone against their team.

[pastoralguy]

What is the purpose of this? It's certainly not funny. You remind me of those overly partisan (usually ignorant) home fans who shout insults at the referee when a decision has gone against their team.

Private joke, Silvestrone! It relates to a BAL last year when the Britten Violin Concerto was discussed. At lot of people (including me) were very perplexed when Ida Haendel's seminal recording wasn't even mentioned. I denounced this decision to the extent that the producer of CD Review posted a very strong email defending their decision NOT to include the Haendel version of the Britten Concerto. He mentioned some nonsense about it not being readily available despite being easily obtained on Amazon.

It's now a joke that I say 'How come no Ida Haendel version?' of a work that she could not be involved in. ('Winterreise', Lizst's piano works - that sort of thing!)

Maybe you had to be there...

[amateur51]

"Maybe you had to be there..."

I've enjoyed it in all its subsequent guises, pastoralguy!

[Barbirollians]

If they do the Sibelius Concerto and she is not mentioned - PG will be manning the barricades of Broadcasting House !

[Cellini]

Private joke, Silvestrone! It relates to a BAL last year when the Britten Violin Concerto was discussed. At lot of people (including me) were very perplexed when Ida Haendel's seminal recording wasn't even mentioned. I denounced this decision to the extent that the producer of CD Review posted a very strong email defending their decision NOT to include the Haendel version of the Britten Concerto. He mentioned some nonsense about it not being readily available despite being easily obtained on Amazon.

It's now a joke that I say 'How come no Ida Haendel version?' of a work that she could not be involved in. ('Winterreise', Lizst's piano works - that sort of thing!)

Maybe you had to be there...

Silvestrone obviously has no sense of humour pastoralguy, and finds nothing on here funny, even old standing private jokes that have been going on for about a year and of course on the old BBC boards.

I hear Ida's in for the job at the Berlin Phil now, as they need to re-do the recording of Mahler 2. I hope she gets the job and we get some decent recordings from now on.

[silvestrione]

Thanks, Pastoralguy, for the explanation: I did sort of get the Ida Haendel joke, though it's nice to hear about the origin of it. I'm sorry to give any impression that knock-about humour like that is anything but enjoyable. What I could not understand (Cellini understood this because he has another dig above) was the (yes, ignorant, ill-informed, and gratuitous) insults being sent in the direction of a man of Rattle's obvious abilities and stature.

[Panjandrum]

Silvestrione: unfortunately, the British disease of building a man up only to knock him down rears its head again. There will always be those who resent Rattle's success either because they have been overlooked themselves, or they or an old pal have been balled out in rehearsal; and, as such, will look for every available opportunity to sneer. Personally, I don't believe that Rattle would have been elected, let alone re-elected as principal conductor of Berlin if he were a talentless t*sser.

[Bryn]

Silvestrione: unfortunately, the British disease of building a man up only to knock him down rears its head again. There will always be those who resent Rattle's success either because they have been overlooked themselves, or they or an old pal have been balled out in rehearsal; and, as such, will look for every available opportunity to sneer. Personally, I don't believe that Rattle would have been elected, let alone re-elected as principal conductor of Berlin if he were a talentless tosser, as some would make out.

Piffle! In most cases I have encountered it is very much more a case of Rattle simply not rising to the high expectations he engenders. When he conducted the Berliners in Messiaen's Turangalîla at the Proms he came up with the goods for once. All too often, as with the various performances of the same composer's Éclairs sur l'au-delà… he has conducted over the years, including that at the Proms, he just does not seem able to translate his obvious enthusiasm for the work into a top flight performance. I keep hoping, but all too often find myself unhappy with the results he achieves in performance. For me, the first big disappointment with him was way back when he recorded Stravinsky's Pulcinella with the Northern Sinfonia. Drab hardly begins to describe that performance.

[Cellini]

This rubbish about players having a dig at Rattle because he's upset them has been the excuse made by ignorant people outside any real understanding of the situation for years. I would think that most people who criticise Rattle have never met him, been near him, or worked with him. It's strange, but I find most people who have worked with him say very little, and neither support him or criticise him. The most I've got is usually "He's OK, not that bad." I have met two players who hated him, but that's only two!

And this stupid talk about him being British or English, so people have to knock him down. Total ignorance! Boult was English, and I don't see anyone knocking him down, as are many other conductors, young, old and dead, who don't seem to have a problem.

I suppose the price one has to pay for reading messageboards is that there are going to be mindless things repeated ad nauseum, and a total lack of humour thrown in.

[Panjandrum]

This rubbish about players having a dig at Rattle because he's upset them has been the excuse made by ignorant people outside any real understanding of the situation for years. I would think that most people who criticise Rattle have never met him, been near him, or worked with him. It's strange, but I find most people who have worked with him say very little, and neither support him or criticise him. The most I've got is usually "He's OK, not that bad." I have met two players who hated him, but that's only two!

And this stupid talk about him being British or English, so people have to knock him down. Total ignorance! Boult was English, and I don't see anyone knocking him down, as are many other conductors, young, old and dead, who don't seem to have a problem.

I suppose the price one has to pay for reading messageboards is that there are going to be mindless things repeated ad nauseum, and a total lack of humour thrown in.

OK, name me a conductor that isn't pushing up the daisies that you've had a good word for?

Look, I hold no brief for Rattle but the man has made some fine recordings over the years. During his tenure at Brum he made some excellent recordings of, primarily, early 20th centure repertoire. His discs of Stravinsky, Sibelius, Schoenberg etc evince an understanding of the structure of those scores which were matched by few other conductors, at that time. There is a fidelity to the composers which allows previously unheard details to make their mark. Moreover, he showed his mettle as an orchestra builder, taking a distinctly mediocre band which had been languishing in the second division of British orchestras, and put them on the world map.

Ok, he's not the world's greatest conductor of the classical, and early Romantic repertoire. In his earlier, less guarded, comments he admitted that this area of the repertory held little interest for him. Of course, as chief conductor of the BPO, he is expected to record these works as part of his and their legacy, but it is not his area of expertise; and he and they are probably on auto pilot when these works are performed in the concert hall, or in the studio.

[amateur51]

I confess that I have very few recordings by Sir Simon but I have a huge number of fond memories of outstanding performances 'live' over a broad repertoire with CBSO and OAE.

That very broad rit that Seckerson complained of in Rattle's latest recording of Mahler Symphony no 2 is something that has been a feature of Rattle's performance for decades. If Seckerson is so irritated by it, why doesn't the fool ask Rattle why he does it and on what grounds?

I just wish that I could afford to attend the current series of concerts in London with BPO - I'm sure they'll be full of interest - and I look forward with gratitude to any broadcasts that the BBC manages to lay on