New Mahler releases

[Curalach]

I thought Ed was quite balanced in his appraisals today; maybe
he is not as institutionally pro-Rattle as I had imagined.

I'm normally a sucker for adding yet another M2 to my collection but ES convinced me not to bother with the Rattle disc.

[Mahlerei]

And for anyone who fancies a new Mahler 8, how about this from Oehms:

http://www.oehmsclassics.de/cd.php?formatid=474

[amateur51]

I found Ed Seckerson pretty much intolerable this morning. His review of the Mahler releases was oh so much about him rather than about the recordings, I felt. He's heard too much for too long and he can't tell t'other from which.

Give him a handful of Bartok or Josquin next time, Andrew so he can re-calibrate his ears

[EnemyoftheStoat]

The orchestra and chorus sing their hearts out....

Hmmm, that's an interesting way of solving the problem with many recordings of this piece i.e. not using a large enough chorus.

[perfect wagnerite]

I found Ed Seckerson pretty much intolerable this morning. His review of the Mahler releases was oh so much about him rather than about the recordings, I felt.

Well yes. His comment about Rattle's Mahler being self-regarding did give rise to a wry smile here (even though I tend to agree - and FWIW I never liked his earlier Resurrection for many of the reasons that Seckerson cited, preferring as I do my Mahler played rather than played with).

On the other hand, I think he has a point about modern Mahler recordings being a bit too smooth for their own good. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to the days when orchestras struggled technically with this repertoire, but something of the shock is missing, IMO. I do feel that the scores need to be a lot wilder and more "out there" than we often get today - Mahler's instructions in the scores, which are often immoderate, appear to imply as much.

[Alison]

I found Ed Seckerson pretty much intolerable this morning. His review of the Mahler releases was oh so much about him rather than about the recordings, I felt. :

Yes my heart did sink when I saw he was reviewing. He does have this very one dimensional view of such a multi dimensional
composer.

[Alison]

I still remember how much clever old Ed made of a balls up in the Gatti Rite of Spring last Proms season.

He says he wants the dirt and the grime, a sense of challenge.

Then just watch him leap on any imperfections ! He does contradict himself rather

a lot.

[gradus]

I enjoyed the Mahler section of the programme and thought Andrew and Edward's discussion interesting with good points made about the versions under discussion. My favourite excerpts were the Mahler 1/Swedish Radio Orchestra which reminded me of Walter albeit at faster tempi and the Herreweghe Mahler 4 which seemed as fresh as paint.

[mathias broucek]

Jansons may be dear on CD but it's v cheap to download on emusic whose pricing policy is great for those of us who enjoy longish symphonies. (Their bit rates aren't that high but sound is no worse than many Radio 3 broadcasts.)

[Barbirollians]

The Herreweghe sounded fascinating to me - I am afraid I did find the extracts of most of the others pretty underwhelming but missed the Abbado extracts as some religious visitors turned up uninvited at my door.

[Simon]

Unusually today I managed to hear most of R3 from 10 till 2, and what an interesting and valuable series of programmes they were for me, too.

I'm no expert on Mahler, but I didn't mind the big rall in 2 that ES made so much of - but then I do rate Sir Simon highly.

The older recording - wiith the phenomenally slow Chorus Mysticus - was magnificent - but nothing like as dramatic at the very end as some I've heard - including Rattle with the YO on youtube!!

As for Herreweghe, he's a star for me and I've never heard him do anything that hasn't worked. He's brilliant with Mozart, particularly, IMO.

[silvestrione]

Glad you've said that Simon: emboldens me to say that I much preferred the Rattle to the Jansons and thought the climactic chords in the Rattle stunning. And I was at the YO performance that is on youtube, and also felt, as I listened to the Tennstedt this morning, that it was nothing like as powerful.

[Nachtigall]

I much preferred the Rattle to the Jansons and thought the climactic chords in the Rattle stunning.

I really don't agree with the Seckerson detractors here. I find that his Mahler is very often my Mahler and that, incidentally, he has a way with words when describing the impact of musical performances which is frequently original and compelling. The discussion this morning was very interesting and I see exactly what he was criticising in the new Rattle Mahler 2: the extracts played sounded simply way too deliberate, too carefully prepared. I shan't be adding it to my collection. On the new Mahler 9 by Saraste and the WDR Sinfonieorchester Köln I can wholeheartedly endorse his praise. I listened to the complete CD this afternoon and found it a near-ideal realisation of the work.

[Mahlerei]

I don't always see eye to eye with ES and I think his generalisations about slow, streamlined Mahler today is disingenuous; Tennstedt and B his beloved Bernstein were guilty of that 30 years ago, so it's hardly a recent trend.

The new Rattle seemed as as awful as his earlier version; hard to believe he hasn't changed his view of the work since then. I don't mind a degree of intervention if there's a purpose behind it; I just feel Rattle tinkers unnecessarily, and the deadly dull first movement is everything I dislike about his conducting.

Now the Saraste and Herreweghe are much more interesting; from the short extracts played both bring something fresh to these much-played scores. ES is spot on here, I think.

[makropulos]

I'd agree with most of what you say, Mahlerei. But I thought ES's point about the strength of conviction behind an interpretative choice (and about slowness in general) was quite persuasive too. Speaking personally, I find Bernstein and Tennstedt can do some extreme things and make them work (superbly on occasions) - but for me, Rattle usually doesn't convince me, especially not in No. 2. That's always going to be a very individual reaction, I know - clearly a lot of people on this thread like Rattle's new performance a good deal. Have to say that Jansons sounded a bit lacklustre too, despite the wonderful orchestra. Perhaps they were having an off night.

One thing that puzzled me was ES's contention that there isn't a recommendable modern recording of the Resurrection Symphony in the catalgoue at the moment. Given what he said about Abbado later in the programme, it's surprising that he doesn't seem to rate Abbado's Lucerne M2 - whcih I certainly do. But each to their own.

By the way, for what it's worth, the Steinberg 1965 Cologne M2 on ICA is *far* more interesting than I'd expected it to be.