Conductors' allergic reactions?

[cloughie]

An interesting thread this one - I have always been fascinated by who does what, and indeed who doesn't, didn't and hasn't. A few thoughts:
1 Abbado - no Elgar - when he was at the LSO would have been a great opportunity.
2 Bernstein would have perhaps produced some interesting Delius.
3 Boulez and RVW not that far-fetched, after all he did study under Ravel - Boulez Ravel to my ears is near the top of the pile.
4 Karajan - I would not accuse him of recording things for sake of completeness - quite the opposite - Nielsen, only no 4 (recorded twice), Shostakovich only no10 (recorded twice), Prokofiev only no1 & 5, Stravinsky Rite (recorded twice but no Petrouchka or Firebird) and more surprisingly perhaps, no Mahler 1 2 3 or 8! Someone mentioned him in Rachmaninov - he would have probably delivered a superb Sym 2!
5 Elgar and Bruckner - yes they are very different but surely the 3rd movement of Elgar 1 is not sonically a million miles away from Bruckner.
6 Barenboim's Elgar Symphonies had mixed reviews at the time - early 70s - it would be interesting to hear whether the years has changed his interpretations - has he done them lately?
7 At risk of upsetting all the boarders who are in awe of Haitink - over his long career he has covered a relatively wide range of composers but now this 'flying conductor' in demand by many orchestras in an era of live recordings repetition is reaching overload - and not all good - his 1979 LPO live RFH recording to me sounds dull. Is he a safe pair of hands or exciting?

[cloughie]

I can't comment on the current batch of maestri but rather wish Beecham had tackled Gerontius.

Towards the end of his life Tommy became very interested in Victorian choral and operatic works and Gerontius isn't a million miles away from that.

I'm sure Barbirolli and Sargent wouldn't have liked the result though. Did TB conduct any of the Elgar choral works ?

I know Beecham used to make uncomplimentary remarks about Flash Harry but what were relationships between these three conductors really like?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes, in fact I think Karajan recorded La Mer four times commercially, the second (1964) DG version being superb, though there are a few I like even more.

Yes; I'd forgotten the second EMI recording with the BPO.

richardfinegold is absolutely correct in saying that conductors shouldn't touch repertoire for which they feel no affinity - it's evident that, in spite of my fantasies, Karajan felt no connection with the Music of Elgar. What I disagree with is the idea that Karajan felt no affinity with some of the repertoire he recorded, and that he only recorded some things for the sake of "completeness" - surely there'd be a St John Passion and a complete Bach orchestral suites if this were so? (And a Beethoven Mass in C major, for that matter.)

Karajan did have a fondness for Rachmaninov (Weissenberg's RCA recording of the Preludes was one of his favourite records) but interestingly did not move onto performing or recording it, apart from the Second concerto, not one of his finer recordings though he conducts it better than Weissenberg plays it.

- harsh, but true!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

.... and Walton seemed to favour rising sevenths. Does that indicate that he preferred Richard Strauss to Anton Bruckner? Or simply that he preferred to inject a little acidity into his music?

Or that he liked Aida?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Boulez Ravel to my ears is near the top of the pile.

At the top, with Monteux, Martinon and Previn, in my book, cloughie - very different from theirs, but revelatory.

4 Karajan - I would not accuse him of recording things for sake of completeness - quite the opposite - Nielsen, only no 4 (recorded twice), Shostakovich only no10 (recorded twice), Prokofiev only no1 & 5, Stravinsky Rite (recorded twice but no Petrouchka or Firebird) and more surprisingly perhaps, no Mahler 1 2 3 or 8! Someone mentioned him in Rachmaninov - he would have probably delivered a superb Sym 2!

Karajan recorded the Nielsen 4 only once, in the last decade of his life when he produced some of his very best recordings (just as he did in all the other decades of his recording career!) - he had the Roussel Fourth Symphony in his "to do" list (he'd recorded it with the Philharmonia in the early '50s) but died before getting to it. (Personally, I'd've preferred this to the VPO Tchaikovsky "trilogy" - unexceptional, if unexceptionable, performances from this source: and a mature Karajan Roussel ... )

No Mahler #7 from Karajan, either.

[salymap]

I know Beecham used to make uncomplimentary remarks about Flash Harry but what were relationships between these three conductors really like?

Afraid I know nothing of Barbirolli, although I admire some of his recordings. Sargent and Beecham had a friendship/working relationship I gather.

The 'Flash in Japan' stuff was just teasing and Malcolm had a very quick tongue and could stick up for himself if needed.

Sargent kept in touch with Tommy right to the end, even though most people thought he was abroad.

There's a lot on the old boards but goodness knows if it can be found.

[amateur51]

Ah Jean Martinon, a French specialist if ever there was one

Try Nielsen symphony no 4 ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7n63zb8BXw

or Mahler symphony no 10 (Cooke performing version) Hague Philharmonic Orchestra 'live'
13/6/1975

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvzeMDhlowM

Who knew?

[Roehre]

Ah Jean Martinon, a French specialist if ever there was one

Mahler symphony no 10 (Cooke performing version) Hague Philharmonic Orchestra 'live'
13/6/1975

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvzeMDhlowM

Who knew?

That's a performance (with Profofiev's Sinfonietta op.5/48 before the interval) which was part of the Holland Festival 1975 and together with Liszt's Faust Symphony (Holland Festival June 26th, 1974) was released on a 3LP set In Memoriam Jean Martinon (Philips 6812.102/104).
Martinon as appointed the orchestra's Principal conductor in January 1974, and died March 1st 1976.

[amateur51]

That's a performance (with Profofiev's Sinfonietta op.5/48 before the interval) which was part of the Holland Festival 1975 and together with Liszt's Faust Symphony (Holland Festival June 26th, 1974) was released on a 3LP set In Memoriam Jean Martinon (Philips 6812.102/104).
Martinon as appointed the orchestra's Principal conductor in January 1974, and died March 1st 1976.

Fascinating Roehre, many thanks

I think that Martinon had not long been appointed Chief Conductor of the RPO before he died. I saw him just once with Milstein (in Brahms?)

[cloughie]

At the top, with Monteux, Martinon and Previn, in my book, cloughie - very different from theirs, but revelatory.


Karajan recorded the Nielsen 4 only once, in the last decade of his life when he produced some of his very best recordings (just as he did in all the other decades of his recording career!) - he had the Roussel Fourth Symphony in his "to do" list (he'd recorded it with the Philharmonia in the early '50s) but died before getting to it. (Personally, I'd've preferred this to the VPO Tchaikovsky "trilogy" - unexceptional, if unexceptionable, performances from this source: and a mature Karajan Roussel ... )

No Mahler #7 from Karajan, either.

I stand corrected on the Nielsen, ferney. You mention Roussel but he also appeared to like a couple of the Honegger symphonies. As for your at the top list for Ravel I would add Munch, Dutoit and Ansermet.

[amateur51]

I stand corrected on the Nielsen, ferney. You mention Roussel but he also appeared to like a couple of the Honegger symphonies. As for your at the top list for Ravel I would add Munch, Dutoit and Ansermet.

And Haitink?

[cloughie]

Ah Jean Martinon, a French specialist if ever there was one

Try Nielsen symphony no 4 ...

I always felt it was ironic that Martinon was appointed Principal Conductor of the Germanic sounding CSO around the same time that Leinsdorf was appointed by the French sounding BSO. Reiner and Munch must both have been hard acts to follow!

Pleased I bought this at the time it first appeared!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Decca-Recordings-Jean-Martinon/dp/B000E0LB7M/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1372764997&sr=1-3&keywords=martinon

And this is a good example of his Chicago output

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ravel-Rapsodie-Espagnole-Martinon/dp/B00004TCPS/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1372765118&sr=1-2&keywords=martinon

[cloughie]

And Haitink?

Not as a top Ravellian!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

As for your at the top list for Ravel I would add Munch, Dutoit and Ansermet.

You're absolutely right, of course. Personally, I'd prefer to hear Haitink's Ravel to Dutoit's, but I can see why others would disagree.

[Roehre]

.....Personally, I'd prefer to hear Haitink's Ravel to Dutoit's, but I can see why others would disagree.