Conductors' allergic reactions?

[Roehre]

http://sibelius.forumup.com/ntopic353-sibelius.html

This might be of interest. It appears that Haitink presided over an account of the Sibelius VC with the Boston SO and Joshua Bell.

And also with the VPO and Vilde Frang: http://www.worldconcerthall.com/en/s..._strauss/6382/

Many thanks Petrushka

Btw, there exist commercially made Philips recordings of Haitink/Concertgebouw of Ravel's L'Enfant et les sortileges as well as Berg's 3 Stücke für Orchester which never have been released

[Nick Armstrong]

Haitink is on record as saying that he feels nothing for Sibelius

I find that very surprising... what a pity...

Fascinating thread.

Abbado in Shostakovich - there's a thought. I doubt it'll happen...

[Alison]

I think Petrushka should go autograph hunting again and quiz Mr Haitink on Sibelius.

[Petrushka]

I think Petrushka should go autograph hunting again and quiz Mr Haitink on Sibelius.

I can't now remember where I heard/read about Haitink's attitude to Sibelius but I think it was more along the lines of 'I've got nothing to say about the music that others can't say better'. Whatever it was it was a long time ago and there is always a chance that he will relent.

Actually, I think his attitude as such is a good one. Not every conductor has a feel for the music of every composer so why take on stuff he doesn't like?

[AjAjAjH]

There's no Bruckner scheduled in Manchester next season which is a pity because we have 2 fine Bruckner conductors associated with our orchestras - Markus Stenz and Janjo Mena. Having heard Mark Elder's fine Elgar, I wish he would conduct some Bruckner.

Posing the premise of this thread the other way round, I seem to remember some years ago, someone writing on this site that Mark Elder was not a natural Mahler conductor, yet the two finest performances of Mahler 1 that I have ever heard were conducted by him. (His Mahler 3, 5 and 9 were memorable as well) Who has surprised you by conducting the works of a composer whom you would not have expected him/her to?

[EdgeleyRob]

I think Petrushka should go autograph hunting again and quiz Mr Haitink on Sibelius.

Well,if it's not good enough for ER........

[Alison]

I suppose I was surprised that Juanjo Mena's Bruckner is something rather remarkable.

Haven't heard much from him this calendar year though ?

Can he be persuaded to take on the Eighth ?

[richardfinegold]

Please explain that one to me Petrushka! Elgar and Bruckner? What am I missing?

Ditto

[richardfinegold]

I can't now remember where I heard/read about Haitink's attitude to Sibelius but I think it was more along the lines of 'I've got nothing to say about the music that others can't say better'. Whatever it was it was a long time ago and there is always a chance that he will relent.

Actually, I think his attitude as such is a good one. Not every conductor has a feel for the music of every composer so why take on stuff he doesn't like?

Agreed. If a Star Conductor doesn't feel an affinity for a Composer, but is recording something for the sake of completeness of his (or her) own catalogue, the results can be a waste of time. Karajan's "Das Mer" or Brandenburg Concertos are prime evidence here. Bernstein is on record as having made recordings of music he didn't much care for, and the results show it.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

Thanks for that. Without wishing to derail the thread, I've always thought there was a strong affinity between Elgar's and Brahms' symphonies, but not Bruckner's....the long flowing melodic line of Nimrod, hmmmm, will have to listen again to the 5th!

Well, there are a lot of falling sevenths in Nimrod and in Bruckner 5/II, but apart from that I find little affinity between the two. Elgar is always a more "intimate" composer, whereas Bruckner's symphonies seem more to "contain worlds", a la Mahler.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Agreed. If a Star Conductor doesn't feel an affinity for a Composer, but is recording something for the sake of completeness of his (or her) own catalogue, the results can be a waste of time. Karajan's "Das Mer" or Brandenburg Concertos are prime evidence here.

"Evidence" of what, rfg? Karajan certainly felt "an affinity" for Debussy's Music: he performed La Mer frequently throughout his career (recording it three times) and Pelleas twice, a quarter century apart - if he recorded the works merely "for the sake of completeness", wouldn't he have also recorded the Nocturnes, the Images and Jeux? The results may have been unidiomatic (as they were for Bach) but that isn't the same thing as "not feeling an affinity" for the Music. And, judging by much critical acclaim for the Stereo La Mer (to say nothing of my own love of it, and for the Philharmonia Mono recording) that's a quite successful "waste of time".

[akiralx]

"Evidence" of what, rfg? Karajan certainly felt "an affinity" for Debussy's Music: he performed La Mer frequently throughout his career (recording it three times) and Pelleas twice, a quarter century apart - if he recorded the works merely "for the sake of completeness", wouldn't he have also recorded the Nocturnes, the Images and Jeux? The results may have been unidiomatic (as they were for Bach) but that isn't the same thing as "not feeling an affinity" for the Music. And, judging by much critical acclaim for the Stereo La Mer (to say nothing of my own love of it, and for the Philharmonia Mono recording) that's a quite successful "waste of time".

Yes, in fact I think Karajan recorded La Mer four times commercially, the second (1964) DG version being superb, though there are a few I like even more.

Karajan did have a fondness for Rachmaninov (Weissenberg's RCA recording of the Preludes was one of his favourite records) but interestingly did not move onto performing or recording it, apart from the Second concerto, not one of his finer recordings though he conducts it better than Weissenberg plays it.

[Pabmusic]

Well, there are a lot of falling sevenths in Nimrod and in Bruckner 5/II, but apart from that I find little affinity between the two. Elgar is always a more "intimate" composer, whereas Bruckner's symphonies seem more to "contain worlds", a la Mahler.

I agree. Any connexion with Bruckner is coincidence. Remember that, in the case of Nimrod, Elgar didn't write an elegy - it was the memory of a summer evening's talk about Beethoven. It was originally marked crotchet = 63, a reasonable tempo for the slow movement of the Pathetique sonata, which provides the melody line of the first four bars. Jaeger persuaded Elgar to alter the metronome mark to crotchet = 54 only after the first two performances.

That said, Eugen Jochum's recording of the Enigma has a notable Nimrod - very unidiomatic, of course, slow and inflexible, but very beautiful - that does sound a lot like Bruckner. Not too surprising, though:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Holst-Planets-Elgar-Enigma-Variations/dp/B000025WU2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372734071&sr=8-1&keywords=elgar+jochum

[Hornspieler]

Well, there are a lot of falling sevenths in Nimrod and in Bruckner 5/II, but apart from that I find little affinity between the two. Elgar is always a more "intimate" composer, whereas Bruckner's symphonies seem more to "contain worlds", a la Mahler.

.... and Walton seemed to favour rising sevenths. Does that indicate that he preferred Richard Strauss to Anton Bruckner? Or simply that he preferred to inject a little acidity into his music?

Why compare? Enjoy - without questioning its origins or the composer's intentions.

HS

[salymap]

I can't comment on the current batch of maestri but rather wish Beecham had tackled Gerontius.

Towards the end of his life Tommy became very interested in Victorian choral and operatic works and Gerontius isn't a million miles away from that.

I'm sure Barbirolli and Sargent wouldn't have liked the result though. Did TB conduct any of the Elgar choral works ?