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  • Barbirollians
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 11771

    Originally posted by Ferretfancy View Post
    I was interested to read David Gutman'r review of the Petrenko Shostakovich 4, since he seems to share most of my reservations about the performance and recording. Most other reviews I have seen have lavished praise on all the Petrenko issues so far, it seems as if new must always be better, but like Mr Gutman I think that better performances can be found elsewhere.

    On the other hand, I can't support Piers Burton Page's enthusiasm for the Holst Hymn of Jesus and Delius Sea Drift, if you want to sense their strangeness go to Boult for the first, and perhaps the first Hickox recording for the second. The Naxos sound is very vague, and the offstage chorus in the Holst lacks real magic.


    So, there we are. In the end the only thing that matters is your ears and brain with reviews to steer you most of the time in the right general direction.
    Yes - I am pretty clear I have different ears for English music from PBP - who failed even to put Ida H on the BAL for Britten's Violin Concerto and rubbished Chung's Walton recording which was highly praised by the composer. He writes intelligently and well though without sweeping statements .

    Comment

    • MickyD
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 4835

      IRR also fields Nicholas Anderson and Simon Heighes, which is good news for a HIPster like me!

      Comment

      • Sir Velo
        Full Member
        • Oct 2012
        • 3268

        Originally posted by Ferretfancy View Post
        it seems as if new must always be better, but like Mr Gutman I think that better performances can be found elsewhere.
        One must remember that publications like IRR, and programmes like CDR, have a vested interest in sales of records, since without a recording industry they don't have a business. Consequently, they will always be pumping the next big release; it is a quid pro quo business unfortunately. Andrew McGregor cleverly circumvents actually encouraging people to spend money by using euphemisms such as "I urge you to hear" or "do listen to this" etc. My eyebrows were raised when McGregor reviewed a new release of The Rite recently, and said something like if you want the Rite then do listen next week when I will be comparing the other new release of it. Somehow he seemed to overlook the fact that there were already 100 extant versions.

        Originally posted by Ferretfancy View Post
        On the other hand, I can't support Piers Burton Page's enthusiasm for the Holst Hymn of Jesus and Delius Sea Drift, if you want to sense their strangeness go to Boult for the first, and perhaps the first Hickox recording for the second. The Naxos sound is very vague, and the offstage chorus in the Holst lacks real magic.
        This is where one misses the old comparative reviews in Gramophone. A conscientious reviewer would draw the reader's attention to both Hickox Sea Drift
        recordings, as well as the Beecham. Absolutely no need to splash out on a newcomer.


        Originally posted by Ferretfancy View Post
        So, there we are. In the end the only thing that matters is your ears and brain with reviews to steer you most of the time in the right general direction.
        Agreed up to a point.However,unless one has unlimited funds, or time to sample, one looks to a reviewer to sort out the wheat from the chaff. This was where the old Gramophone was priceless and IRR falls short. One knew that if RO or RL or MEO had a recommendation it was sound. Similarly, they were without fear or favour in condemning a release, no matter how starry the performers. Thus, if one's tastes concurred with a reviewer one knew one could purchase a recording with no sense of caveat emptor.

        Comment

        • jayne lee wilson
          Banned
          • Jul 2011
          • 10711

          Originally posted by Ferretfancy View Post
          I was interested to read David Gutman'r review of the Petrenko Shostakovich 4, since he seems to share most of my reservations about the performance and recording. Most other reviews I have seen have lavished praise on all the Petrenko issues so far, it seems as if new must always be better, but like Mr Gutman I think that better performances can be found elsewhere.

          On the other hand, I can't support Piers Burton Page's enthusiasm for the Holst Hymn of Jesus and Delius Sea Drift, if you want to sense their strangeness go to Boult for the first, and perhaps the first Hickox recording for the second. The Naxos sound is very vague, and the offstage chorus in the Holst lacks real magic.

          So, there we are. In the end the only thing that matters is your ears and brain with reviews to steer you most of the time in the right general direction.
          Naxos? The Holst/Delius is on the Halle's own label as usual...and received the highest praise from AA in the G. too, "topnotch production values...unmissable" anyway it's here soon and I'll make up my own ears...

          And now back to bed! Need some energy for sunbathing later..

          Comment

          • Keraulophone
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 1972

            Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
            Chung's Walton recording ... was highly praised by the composer.
            Didn't Walton have a habit of highly praising any and every performance or recording of his works?

            Comment

            • Ferretfancy
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 3487

              Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
              Naxos? The Holst/Delius is on the Halle's own label as usual...and received the highest praise from AA in the G. too, "topnotch production values...unmissable" anyway it's here soon and I'll make up my own ears...

              And now back to bed! Need some energy for sunbathing later..
              Apologies for the error, I have been listening to quite a few Naxos discs lately. I hope you enjoy it more than I did, jayne

              Comment

              • Ferretfancy
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 3487

                Originally posted by Keraulophone View Post
                Didn't Walton have a habit of highly praising any and every performance or recording of his works?
                Karajan tried to persuade Walton to make some cuts in the First Symphony before recording it, and Walton sent him off with a flea in his ear ! Karajan subsequently recorded it with the Rome SO in 1953, and very odd it is ! I don't know if Walton ever heard it.

                Comment

                • Barbirollians
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 11771

                  Originally posted by Keraulophone View Post
                  Didn't Walton have a habit of highly praising any and every performance or recording of his works?
                  No I don't think so - wasn't he cool about Sargent's recordings ? or was that VW ?

                  Comment

                  • LaurieWatt
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 205

                    Originally posted by Ferretfancy View Post
                    I was interested to read David Gutman'r review of the Petrenko Shostakovich 4, since he seems to share most of my reservations about the performance and recording. Most other reviews I have seen have lavished praise on all the Petrenko issues so far, it seems as if new must always be better, but like Mr Gutman I think that better performances can be found elsewhere.

                    On the other hand, I can't support Piers Burton Page's enthusiasm for the Holst Hymn of Jesus and Delius Sea Drift, if you want to sense their strangeness go to Boult for the first, and perhaps the first Hickox recording for the second. The Naxos sound is very vague, and the offstage chorus in the Holst lacks real magic.

                    So, there we are. In the end the only thing that matters is your ears and brain with reviews to steer you most of the time in the right general direction.
                    It is so difficult is it not? Very much each to his own! I must check and see what DG's reservations were but having been less enthusiastic than some commentators over Petrenko's more recent Shostakovich symphony recordings from Liverpool - in particular the 7th - I thought 4th Symphony absolutely hit the spot and I was thrilled by it both as to performance and recording.

                    Comment

                    • Barbirollians
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 11771

                      Originally posted by Sir Velo View Post
                      Agreed up to a point.However,unless one has unlimited funds, or time to sample, one looks to a reviewer to sort out the wheat from the chaff. This was where the old Gramophone was priceless and IRR falls short. One knew that if RO or RL or MEO had a recommendation it was sound. Similarly, they were without fear or favour in condemning a release, no matter how starry the performers. Thus, if one's tastes concurred with a reviewer one knew one could purchase a recording with no sense of caveat emptor.
                      I agree - the rare times RO reviews nowadays I still find I can have utter confidence in his choice . I think the only time I can recall significantly disagreeing with his choice was when he preferred Brendel's complete Mozart Concertos to Perahia . IF we had a full Brendel/Mackerras set on the other hand ?

                      John Steane and Christopher Headington were other reviewers with whom one could be sure that very careful and fair listening had occurred .

                      There are two many Trevor Harvey pastiche reviewers out there at the moment .

                      Comment

                      • makropulos
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 1677

                        Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
                        No I don't think so - wasn't he cool about Sargent's recordings ? or was that VW ?
                        I think it must have been VW. I used to have an LP of the Sargent Walton 1st Symphony with an extremely enthusiastic endorsement by Walton (a little facsimile of Walton's writing in a box on the back of the sleeve). Mind you, it's not at all a bad performance - a little under-rated perhaps.

                        Comment

                        • Barbirollians
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 11771

                          Originally posted by makropulos View Post
                          I think it must have been VW. I used to have an LP of the Sargent Walton 1st Symphony with an extremely enthusiastic endorsement by Walton (a little facsimile of Walton's writing in a box on the back of the sleeve). Mind you, it's not at all a bad performance - a little under-rated perhaps.
                          Ah well - he did apparently ask for her to play the Concerto at his seventieth birthday concert and was at the sessions too as the lovely photo of him and a laughing KWC on the original cover shows .

                          Comment

                          • jayne lee wilson
                            Banned
                            • Jul 2011
                            • 10711

                            Originally posted by Sir Velo View Post
                            One must remember that publications like IRR, and programmes like CDR, have a vested interest in sales of records, since without a recording industry they don't have a business. Consequently, they will always be pumping the next big release; it is a quid pro quo business unfortunately. Andrew McGregor cleverly circumvents actually encouraging people to spend money by using euphemisms such as "I urge you to hear" or "do listen to this" etc. My eyebrows were raised when McGregor reviewed a new release of The Rite recently, and said something like if you want the Rite then do listen next week when I will be comparing the other new release of it. Somehow he seemed to overlook the fact that there were already 100 extant versions.

                            This is where one misses the old comparative reviews in Gramophone. A conscientious reviewer would draw the reader's attention to both Hickox Sea Drift
                            recordings, as well as the Beecham. Absolutely no need to splash out on a newcomer.



                            Agreed up to a point.However,unless one has unlimited funds, or time to sample, one looks to a reviewer to sort out the wheat from the chaff. This was where the old Gramophone was priceless and IRR falls short. One knew that if RO or RL or MEO had a recommendation it was sound. Similarly, they were without fear or favour in condemning a release, no matter how starry the performers. Thus, if one's tastes concurred with a reviewer one knew one could purchase a recording with no sense of caveat emptor.
                            Andrew Achenbach made several comparative references to earlier recordings in his G review - in the Delius he especially likes Reuter/Holten and Terfel/Hickox...but if you don't actually read it, then... plenty of listed comparisons in Burton-Page's eloquent piece too. All things must change and pass - it's too easy to fall into the trap of lamenting a Golden Age.

                            I too miss many of the "Old Gramophone"'s writers and qualities, and the sheer length&depth (especially the Retrospects), but what kind of music lover laments the passing of the "Old Gramophone" and simultaneously refuses to subscribe to it for the archive? Everything you need is there to set against new releases and reviews...

                            More importantly, the paradox of the Recording Era is precisely the tendency to seek the "best" or "definitive" recording, rather than admit that there's no such thing and the only way to keep classical music alive is to play it, record it and interpret it - DIFFERENTLY. Otherwise you're back in the museum. So present reviewers aren't just keeping the profits up - they want to hear, as I do, today's performers playing these things - hoping to be surprised and delighted anew. This is why it might be worth tuning in to a live R3 concert, say Brabbins doing Mahler 4 in Glasgow or the miraculous Pons concert earlier tonight. The thrill is in NOT KNOWING WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO GET, rather than taking that 3-star rosetted all-time top recommendation off the shelf yet again...

                            You do need to be disappointed occasionally - to hear the mediocre sometimes - to know the worth of the better or the best...
                            Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 05-12-13, 02:08.

                            Comment

                            • Thropplenoggin
                              Full Member
                              • Mar 2013
                              • 1587

                              A classic (Raymond S.) Tuttle-ism in this month's IRR, the one with Truls Mork looking like a posh serial killer on the front: 'It's asparagus season, and talented young string quartets seem to be as abundant as that noble vegetable.'

                              Put me in mind of Uncle Monty's eulogies for root vegetables in Withnail & I.
                              Last edited by Thropplenoggin; 03-05-14, 07:13.
                              It loved to happen. -- Marcus Aurelius

                              Comment

                              • amateur51

                                Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post

                                You do need to be disappointed occasionally - to hear the mediocre sometimes - to know the worth of the better or the best...
                                Much wisdom in this post jlw tho' I dare say 'the boys' will be along in a moment to trash it

                                One of my favourite recordings is a 'live' performance of Schumann Fantasia played in concert by one of my favourite Schumann pianists, Wilhelm Kempff. Page after page he can scarecely string together a dozen correct notes, there's the odd mwemory lapse etc. But you can hear him struggling to synchronise his brain/memory & and his hands and slowly the performance begins to cohere.

                                A similar incident happened years ago on a Radio 3 lunchtime concert by the Dutch bass-baritone Robert Holl with Roger Vignoles in a Schumann song-cycle. In the first few songs his voice was croaky and unfocussed and a car-crash performance was in the making. But gradually he got his act together and by the finishing post the audience was cheering for an encore.

                                Neither of these performances was what I expected or wanted to hear but by gum they've stayed in my memory and the stock of the artists in question has risen in my pantheon.
                                Last edited by Guest; 03-05-14, 19:34. Reason: shocking trypo-fest noted by Throppers

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