Wagner collections - 8 June 2013

[ARBurton]

Chap on talking about Furtwangler Rings- I`m sure he said we have one from 1936. Do we? There are excerpts from Covent Garden 1937, but I`m not aware of anything complete...?

[verismissimo]

I'm only aware of the 1927-32 HMV "potted" Ring conducted variously by Blech, Coates, Heger. Alwin, Barbirolli and Collingwood. Wonderful, but no Furtwangler in sight!

[Petrushka]

There is the 1950 La Scala recording and the 1953 Rome taping. Not aware of a Furtwängler third.

[verismissimo]

So exciting to hear the Furtwangler 1950 La Scala Ring in such clear and immediate sound from Pristine. I've had it for several decades on dim, murky LPs.

[slarty]

The only bits of a Ring from 1936 are from CG conducted by Beecham. Four Technical test sides of Rheingold and now thought lost and just over 100 minutes of Götterdämmerung which is available.
Furtwängler did not conduct the Ring at CG until 1937 of which an Act 3 Walküre and 103 minutes of Götterdämmerung, and from the 1938 Ring,30 minutes of Act 2.

There were some dubious excerpts issued years ago supposedly being WF at the 1937 Festival, long since proved false.
Then we have the La Scala Milan Ring of March April 1950, with a second Götterdämmerung broadcast of April 2.
Act 1 Walküre RAI 1952 and Act 3 Götterdämmerung also RAI 1952 as tryouts for the next year's project,which was
The Rome Ring RAI 1953.
That is about it.
1936? that's a new one on me.
slarty

[Bert Coules]

Yes, that remastered La Scala Ring sounds vastly improved from my ancient Murray Hill set (the entire work on eleven LPs!) but they should have mentioned the cuts: Furtwängler was apparently obliged to use the standard Scala version of Siegfried which has two substantial trims. And though Set Svanholm's hero is intelligent and involving, he does almost completely run out of steam by the end of Siegfried, which makes for a slightly uncomfortable listen. Overall, though, it is a great performance.

I too have never heard of a 1936 Furtwängler Ring.

[amateur51]

I too have never heard of a 1936 Furtwängler Ring.

I've dreamt of one, mind - not cuts in that

[RobertLeDiable]

I thought it was an odd selection of 'great singers' recordings from that collection. Greindl was an excellent Hagen with many years' faithful service at Bayreuth, but I didn't much like the sound of his voice as Amfortas. And why choose just one 1923 Melchior recording? This Nicholas Baragwanath guy described him as the great heldentenor of the 1920s, but surely he's mainly famous for dominating the 1930s and 40s. It's the second time I've heard Baragwanath on the programme as a supposed Wagner expert, but the last time he raved about the Gergiev Ring recording so he can't be that much of an expert. I'm sure there are more authoritative people out there.

[Nick Armstrong]

Only been able to hear the first part of this segment, I will hear the rest tomorrow... Speaking as a non Wagner specialist who nonetheless loves a lot of the music (but is put off by some of the comparative pip-squeak voices allowed to sing his music in public these days), I was knocked out by the extracts of Josef Greindl and Thomas Stewart played this morning, majestic stuff.

I was also puzzled by the 'relegation' of Melchior to the 1920s. Is this because DG (whose set this is) don't have access to his later recordings? The French 'Critiques de Disque' programme covered Walküre a few months back, and considered two recordings with Melchior (Vienna, Bruno Walter, 1935 and New York, Erich Leinsdorf, 1940) and I was similarly knocked out by the power, sensuality and purity of Melchior's voice.

[Bert Coules]

I agree, both about the choice of extracts and the expertise of the presenter both as a Wagnerian and as a broadcaster: he repeated himself rather more often than is ideal, got lost occasionally, and seemed thrown by the simplest question if it took him away from his prepared script. But his enthusiasm was endearing.

Melchior's reputation suffered for a long time when he was regarded as bringing not much more to the works than stamina and volume: a famous (though possibly apocryphal) story tells of his habit, during the long act one Grail ceremony scene in Parsifal when he was supposed to stand silently and watch the proceedings, of slowly edging sideways to the point of disappearing into the wings and then going out for a bite to eat, returning just before the end. But these days, the release of more early recordings reveal a certain subtlety and dramatic presence, served by quiet singing as well as the polar opposite.

[Flosshilde]

Which Wagner collection is this? The BBCMM reviewed 2 recently - one of the operas in performances dating from the 2nd half of the 20th century, plus extracts from recordings made before that, all from Bayreuth, and another of recordings made at various opera houses.

[ARBurton]

I will have to listen to it on the Iplayer to check, but I`m certain that when reviewing the undoubtedly splendid-sounding Pristine Audio transfer of the Furtwangler/La Scala Ring, the "guest" said something about one from 1936. AS other posters have correctly said, there wasn`t one, and a complete set of the 1937 recording was rumoured to have been smashed and tossed into a Norwegian Fjord on Ms Flagstad`s instructions.

[Flosshilde]

I will have to listen to it on the Iplayer to check, but I`m certain that when reviewing the undoubtedly splendid-sounding Pristine Audio transfer of the Furtwangler/La Scala Ring, the "guest" said something about one from 1936. AS other posters have correctly said, there wasn`t one, and a complete set of the 1937 recording was rumoured to have been smashed and tossed into a Norwegian Fjord on Ms Flagstad`s instructions.

I hope the local Rhinemaidens were there to receive it

[Alison]

He definitely made reference to a 1936 Ring. Surely a mistake, I still valued a fresh approach to the subject matter which didn't rehash the normal received opinions.

[slarty]

I thought it was an odd selection of 'great singers' recordings from that collection. Greindl was an excellent Hagen with many years' faithful service at Bayreuth, but I didn't much like the sound of his voice as Amfortas. And why choose just one 1923 Melchior recording? This Nicholas Baragwanath guy described him as the great heldentenor of the 1920s, but surely he's mainly famous for dominating the 1930s and 40s. It's the second time I've heard Baragwanath on the programme as a supposed Wagner expert, but the last time he raved about the Gergiev Ring recording so he can't be that much of an expert. I'm sure there are more authoritative people out there.

Greindl did not sing Amfortas, he sang Gurnemanz, and was the main Bayreuth Gurnemanz for many years beginning in 1954 and ending in 1969.
This Wagner collection can be found at Amazon with the ASIN B00B7UOOA4. It is the recent Great Wagner Singers from DGG.
There are one or two quite rare recordings to be found here.
As for only using the 1923 Melchior recording, all of his later commercial recordings were made for RCA which is now under the Sony umbrella, I think.
The collection is much more worthwhile for the recordings of the many stalwart german singers of the post war era that only recorded with DGG when it was more or less a domestic label.
It is worth checking out.
slarty