Shostakovich Leningrad Symphony Petrenko

[Petrushka]

A fine and fascinating summation, LW - always a delight to read your thoughts and anecdotes. I wish you luck with getting the '84 DSCH 6/LPO on disc; I don't doubt for une minute that there would be plenty of takers here.

Indeed so. I wasn't at the DSCH 6 in 1984 but I did listen to it live on R3 and had an off air recording on cassette at one time. Can't recall the rest of the programme, alas, but would most certainly buy any CD issue!

I would differ very slightly from LaurieWatt's excellent summation in that I prefer the LPO 4th to the Chicago remake and Haitink's DSCH 8 with the Concertgebouw is a stunning performance and recording but live in hope that a 1983 Proms account with the same forces will one day see CD reissue. I was present at that and will never forget it.

[LaurieWatt]

Indeed so. I wasn't at the DSCH 6 in 1984 but I did listen to it live on R3 and had an off air recording on cassette at one time. Can't recall the rest of the programme, alas, but would most certainly buy any CD issue!

I would differ very slightly from LaurieWatt's excellent summation in that I prefer the LPO 4th to the Chicago remake and Haitink's DSCH 8 with the Concertgebouw is a stunning performance and recording but live in hope that a 1983 Proms account with the same forces will one day see CD reissue. I was present at that and will never forget it.

The rest of the programme for those two concerts, Petrushka, was as follows:

The first on November 22nd was - Mussorgsky, Prelude to Khovanschina; Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto No 4 and then the Shostakovich 6.

The second on November 27th was Elgar: Introduction and Allegro (already out on the LPO label); Prokofiev: Suite - The Love of Three Oranges; Vaughan Williams: Sinfonia Antarctica.

Keep your fingers crossed for the VW, which was superb and a wonderful broadcast where the quiet pedal of the RFH organ came uncharacteristically through beautifully in the third movement, and, also, the electrifying Prokofiev.

Back to Shostakovich for a moment as I forgot to include Haitink's Symphony No 14 which is a very fine performance, too.

[BBMmk2]

There does seem a resurgence of a golden period happening up their in Liverpool, since Petrenko took over?

[umslopogaas]

On LP I have performances conducted by Svetlanov, Bernstein, Berglund and Neumann, and on CD by Bernstein (different orchestra) and Haitink. I have several CDs in the Mravinsky edition series, but unfortunately not the Seventh: The ones I have heard have been particularly powerful performances.

[Dave2002]

Richard,

The problem I had was with No 10. I bought it as a FLAC download from The Classical Shop and, when I saw the clipping, complained. They sourced a new file from Naxos which was exactly the same. To satisfy my own curiosity I actually bought the CD as well, and that also had the same clipping.

The brass timbres in the climaxes tend to mask the clipping, merely showing as a coarsening of the sound.

John

That's pretty bad. I have recently been quite concerned about clipping, and realised that most people don't really know what it is, though they have a vague understanding if they hear something which doesn't sound quite right. One particular concern was matching the output of a computer to an amplifier, and I suggested the use of an attenuator to avoid input overload. It's always possible to introduce clipping to a recording which doesn't have it, either digitally or by using inappropriate analogue components and interconnection, but surely it should be reasonable to assume that a decent recording company wouldn't have master recordings with in-built clipping. Once the clipping is in there, it's effectively impossible to remove. Just seems shoddy to me.

I think I have that CD, so will listen to it again. I did quite enjoy it, though I did feel that Haitink, whom I've heard live - perhaps more than once, is even more involving performance wise.

[jayne lee wilson]

There does seem a resurgence of a golden period happening up their in Liverpool, since Petrenko took over?

Indeed there is - I've attended 2 Leningrads there with Petrenko, one in 10/2007 and that 01/2012 effort. I had the impression that the later performance was more disciplined and controlled, the earlier more passionate, all-guns-blazing (certainly more ear-challenging) - well you can guess which I responded to more. But it is hard to compare across 5 years...

(Mind you, with Thomas Dausgaard at the RLPO last Saturday, I got earache from the blaring brass-playing in Bruckner 6, almost entirely the fault of a conductor going TOO LOUD TOO SOON TOO OFTEN. This is a conductor whose Swedish BIS tapings I've often admired (and bought), but a sonic miscalculation here...)

[BBMmk2]

Indeed there is - I've attended 2 Leningrads there with Petrenko, one in 10/2007 and that 01/2012 effort. I had the impression that the later performance was more disciplined and controlled, the earlier more passionate, all-guns-blazing (certainly more ear-challenging) - well you can guess which I responded to more. But it is hard to compare across 5 years...

(Mind you, with Thomas Dausgaard at the RLPO last Saturday, I got earache from the blaring brass-playing in Bruckner 6, almost entirely the fault of a conductor going TOO LOUD TOO SOON TOO OFTEN. This is a conductor whose Swedish BIS tapings I've often admired (and bought), but a sonic miscalculation here...)

Brass playing too loud!! What!?!?? Scandalous!! :)

[Petrushka]

The rest of the programme for those two concerts, Petrushka, was as follows:

The first on November 22nd was - Mussorgsky, Prelude to Khovanschina; Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto No 4 and then the Shostakovich 6.

The second on November 27th was Elgar: Introduction and Allegro (already out on the LPO label); Prokofiev: Suite - The Love of Three Oranges; Vaughan Williams: Sinfonia Antarctica.

Keep your fingers crossed for the VW, which was superb and a wonderful broadcast where the quiet pedal of the RFH organ came uncharacteristically through beautifully in the third movement, and, also, the electrifying Prokofiev.

Back to Shostakovich for a moment as I forgot to include Haitink's Symphony No 14 which is a very fine performance, too.

Eager to see those releases should they appear!

The Haitink DSCH 14 is spoilt for me by being in the original languages version rather than the Russian. I keep 'hearing' the Russian instead and I find it frustrating.

[Dave2002]

Indeed there is - I've attended 2 Leningrads there with Petrenko, one in 10/2007 and that 01/2012 effort. I had the impression that the later performance was more disciplined and controlled, the earlier more passionate, all-guns-blazing (certainly more ear-challenging) - well you can guess which I responded to more. But it is hard to compare across 5 years...

(Mind you, with Thomas Dausgaard at the RLPO last Saturday, I got earache from the blaring brass-playing in Bruckner 6, almost entirely the fault of a conductor going TOO LOUD TOO SOON TOO OFTEN. This is a conductor whose Swedish BIS tapings I've often admired (and bought), but a sonic miscalculation here...)

Interesting that you found the sound too loud in the Philharmonic Hall. I don't think I've ever experienced that there, but I have in a somewhat lesser "hall". Quite a while back I heard Rhosdestvensky (I think it was him) conduct Shostakovich 5 and Walton 1 in Hemel Hempstead Pavilion.
I'm sure the dynamics were right, as played, but failed to take into account the acoustics of the hall completely. Many of the drum and other outbursts had me reaching to cover my ears, and also much of the concert was spent in agonised anticipation of the next loud passage, as I had a fairly good idea of what was coming up. We could argue about it, but I think the conductor has some responsibility to take into account the perceived volume levels in the hall being used. Nevertheless, I find it hard to believe that it was possible to get such an overwhelming effect in the Phil.

[jayne lee wilson]

You can be overwhelmed almost anywhere if the conductor "looks [too] encouragingly at the brass"; the point with a Bruckner symphony is to "grade" the climaxes dynamically, not just LET IT ALL GO at each and every one. As Jochum noted, the odd thing about No.6 is that its main climax comes (arguably ) at the end of the first movement. Tricky... but Dausgaard had them all blazing away after just a few minutes. The adagio counted for little, overshadowed by the decibels around it; the scherzo was quite without its nocturnal atmosphere. (Odder still, his Swedish CO Bruckner 2nd on BIS is refined almost to a fault - I liked it a lot for its pastoral intimacy, but some reviewers thought it "lacked grandeur"... but of course he knows that orchestra and that acoustic closely (as do BIS engineers)). Again, unlike his 2nd, Dausgaard's 6th was, interpretatively, too impulsive, jumpy and nervous in its tempi & shaping.

Petrenko occasionally made this sort of dynamic miscalculation early in his tenure - his first Manfred Symphony in Liverpool (2007, I think) suffered a similar blaring coarseness for the first 3 movements, finally recovering some subtlety & tonal refinement in the finale - credit to Petrenko for noticing this and putting it right on the fly...

[LaurieWatt]

... As Jochum noted, the odd thing about No.6 is that its main climax comes (arguably ) at the end of the first movement. Tricky... but Dausgaard had them all blazing away after just a few minutes. ...

For me the main climax in Bruckner 6 is that great culmination close to the end of the last movement when the trombone bells come up to reprise the main theme from the first movement! There they do need to have a bit of edge to their sound otherwise they can get lost in the general tutti! But who am I to argue with Jochum of all people?!

[Alison]

My father was fortunate enough to go to the vast majority of LPO/Haitink concerts
at the Festival Hall and has always told me that the most sensational performance he would
pick out would be the DSCH 6 mentioned above.

Some folk in the choir seats were more or less dancing on air by the end.

Sadly not in the family archives, I would love to hear this performance !

[DublinJimbo]

I'm listening to the Petrenko 'Leningrad' as I write this, and I'm awe-struck. The cycle as a whole is top-notch, but this release is something extra special. The control of the march section in the first movement is remarkable, managing to achieve a feeling of suspense and unease even in its pianississimo beginning.

You guys in the UK are blessed right now with a remarkable roster of fine conductors, not just Vasily Petrenko, but also Andris Nelsons and Vladimir Jurowski and Robin Ticciati. It's all very exciting indeed, and I must get off my butt and take a trip over for some concerts.

[Stanfordian]

I'm listening to the Petrenko 'Leningrad' as I write this, and I'm awe-struck. The cycle as a whole is top-notch, but this release is something extra special. The control of the march section in the first movement is remarkable, managing to achieve a feeling of suspense and unease even in its pianississimo beginning.

You guys in the UK are blessed right now with a remarkable roster of fine conductors, not just Vasily Petrenko, but also Andris Nelsons and Vladimir Jurowski and Robin Ticciati. It's all very exciting indeed, and I must get off my butt and take a trip over for some concerts.

Hiya DublinJimbo,

Don't forget Juanjo Mena of the BBC Phil and Sir Mark Elder of the Halle.