Forum BAL : Bruckner 9

[vinteuil]

EMI's Icons... ....mind you, the more I hear about that series, perhaps we should be glad.

could you expand?

[Mandryka]

could you expand?

There have been complaints about the sound on that series, particularly with reference to the Lipatti set.

[Barbirollians]

The sound on the Richter Icon set appears very hard and unattractive to me too.

[Karafan]

Thanks for the clarification, Karafan. Ah well, Lübeck, Linz - both cathedrals with an L... No big difference between Austria and N Germany?!

I see the reviewer at Musicweb also seems to think that that RCA 9 was Lübeck. I've had a listen on Spotify, and certainly agree with you: a reasonably resonant acoustic, but certainly no cathedral! It only confirms my prejudice that 75% of Musicweb reviewers are pretty clueless...

Yes, that one was done in Hamburg's Musikhalle IIRC.

K.

[BBMmk2]

Bruckner's 9th, has alsways been for me one of those iconic works. I can compare this to for example, JSB's Die Kunst der Fugue.

[mathias broucek]

I listened last night to my newly-acquired Kubelik recording (Bav RSO - live on Orfeo) and it's prettty wonderful. It perhaps wouldn't make my top 3 (Furtwangler / Wand-Lubeck / Walter) but it's not far off and the sound is extremely good. (That's good meaning "good", not just "good for a radio broadcast".)

[umslopogaas]

M 20 Gurnemanz

G., The Walter/Columbia SO version of Bruckner's ninth exists on (at least) two LPs, from Philips and CBS, both dated 1960, not 1959. Not to say of course that it wasnt actually recorded the previous year, do you know if that was the case?

More generally, does anyone know anything about the arrangement between CBS (UK) and Philips? I thought they were commercial rivals, so it seems a bit odd for them to co--operate in issuing the same recording. The LP numbers are SBRG 72095 (CBS) and SABL 179 (Philips).

As well as the Van Beinum, Walter, Giulini, Mehta and Haitink versions already mentioned, I have one that is more obscure: an ancient Vox mono LP from 1954 of Jascha Horenstein conducting the Pro Musica Symphony, Vienna. Most likely the VPO moonlighting under an alias, does anyone know?

[Bryn]

As far as I recall, all Columbia (USA) recordings were handled by Philips until around that time. Perhaps it's a bit like the situation between Erato and CBS (UK) over the old Boulez recording on Messiaen;s Et Expecto Ressuractionem Mortuorum and Couleurs de la Cité Céleste, which had appeared on both label, and even on the more recent manifestation of CBS as Sony, on CD.

[scottycelt]

That a remarkable observation, as most likely Hanns Rott's influence IMO starts with Mahler 5. Mahler studied Rott's E-major symphony after he completed no.4 and half way composing 5.

Interestingly the fifth is the only Mahler symphony which was completely reorchestrated (only symphonies 1 and 2 were amended, in case of 1 quite substantially even, but NOT FULLY re-scored).

It was during the composition of 5 that Mahler borrowed the score of his friend Hans Rott's 1st symphony (in E-major). This work, although more than a decade older than Mahler 5, shows definite style elements of 5. The conclusion therefore: Mahler was in his 5th strongly influenced by Rott, at least where the orchestration is concerned.

The original scoring of 5 was far more similar to the 3rd's and 4th's scoring than the now familiar one.

Alma makes some remarks in her memoires regarding this work, e.g. Mahler removing vast parts of the percussion he used in the oldest version (as "all those lovely melodies were covered by the percussion").

There exists a book about Mahler 5, accompanied by a CD on which RoyalCGO/Chailly play some extracts of 5 in the original as well as in the present orchestration, which cannot be described otherwise than as a revelation.

As is proven by not only Schumann quoting An die ferne Geliebte, but Brahms doing so in the first version (1853) of the latter's trio opus 8 too.
And let's not forget e.g. Brahms' quotations of the horn melody from Schumann's Konzertstück in G opus 92 in his first mvt of Piano concerto no.1.
Definitely homages to other composers and other composers' works.

I've just picked up on this after downloading Rott's E-Major Symphony from YouTube and listening to it this morning. I'd never heard the work before but was previously familiar with the fact that the composer was a pupil and a great favourite of Bruckner and a very close friend of the young Mahler. I was also aware of his tragic early demise and have been anxious for some time to learn more about his music.

A cliche it may be, but I'm now completely bowled over! A fascinating work indeed and it does at last provide a link between Bruckner and Mahler which I'd never quite grasped before ... Rott's debt to the former and influence on the latter is plainly obvious.

The last movement also provided me with a delicious visual fantasy of Brahms and Bruckner finally burying their differences and marching together arm-in-arm into the sunset ... what a wonderful 'discovery'!

Thank you, YouTube!!

[akiralx]

My favourite Bruckner 9 is Berlin PO/Barenboim on Teldec.

[BBMmk2]

Claudio Abbado for me with the Wiener Philharmoniker or Eugen jochum and the BPO.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I have Furtwangler and VPO/Mehta. Do I need any more? It isn't a work I know well.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I've yet to hear a poor performance of this magnificent work. Are there any that must be avoided at all costs? (And, should anyone feel compelled to say "All those that omit 'the' completion of the Finale", thank you for your suggestion; its contents have been noted and filed by our expert staff.)

[Beef Oven]

my faves are:

HvK BPO 1966
Kubelik Bavarian Radio SO
Giulini VPO
Celibidache Munich Philharmonic
Furtwangler
Kna
Reggie Goodall's performance on the BBC Legends series

A bit obvious, but the best none the less.

/


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[pursuivant]

Wand's Superlative Bruckner 9

[QUOTE=Petrushka;28344]I was at the 2001 Prom with Gunter Wand and the NDRSO and will never, ever forget it. Can Testament be persuaded to twist the Beeb's arm and provide a CD release? I have a slightly less than adequate radio recording but this legendary performance cries out for issue.

Glad you like it Petrushka. I was fortunate to capture a decent off-air recording of this wonderful performance and since I have access to decent equipment I tidied it up and have my own CD copy for personal listening. It is very satisfying that the BBC engineers achieved excellent sound. Testament are very reliable and I am sure they would do an excellent job. Every Bruckner lover deserves the opportunity to hear this towering interpretation.