Carmina Burana

[Flosshilde]

CB (and other Orff works btw, but this is the worst culprit) deserves a complete boycott

That orfful, are they?

[Nick Armstrong]

That orfful, are they?

Doesn't mean you can't like 'em http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJmg-879j5o

[vinteuil]

Makes two of us. Haven't it in my collection either - not even for reference purposes.

... add my name to the growing list.

The only reason I occasionally give half an ear to the Orffish Carmina Burana is for purely nostalgic reasons - first year abroad after university, very few records in the flat I shared - one of them the Orff - each time I hear it vivid memories of Algeria in the late '70s...

But it is really a ghastly piece of music.

[Barbirollians]

Sod Orff I would say if anyone proposed listening to it !

[richardfinegold]

One of the very few pieces I'd REALLY HATE to hear again. Awful. To my ears not a scrap of worth anywhere.

Oh, yes, my loss I'm sure...

Jayne, I really wish that you would stop obfuscating and tell us what you really think

[richardfinegold]

I cannot stand it , ghastly text , horrible music and Nazi connotations . I once found myself listening to it in Hong Kong with the HKPO conduced by David Atherton - he looked to be hating it almost as much as me .

and by Roehre:
Makes two of us. Haven't it in my collection either - not even for reference purposes.
CB (and other Orff works btw, but this is the worst culprit) deserves a complete boycott



I am not going to go to my grave defending CB; as I indicated in the OP, I don't listen to it very much, had waited for several months after buying the big Ormandy box to give that recording a spin, etc. I do find that it is a lot of vulgar fun, kind of like the Rolling Stones Exile On Main Street, and just like Exile there is a lot of catchy music making mixed in with the vulgarity.
I do have a few problems with the comments quoted above.
First, regarding the Nazi connotations, I feel obliged that the text quoted date from the Middle Ages, and didn't spring from the bowels of Dr. Goebbel's Propaganda Ministry. The Nazi's may have attempted to co opt the music, but they also did that with Mozart, Bruckner, and a host of other composers. 65 years later we can listen to the music on it's own merits (in this case, admittedly slight) and put that twaddle behind us.
Second, regarding the bawdy nature of the text, it is the over the top vulgarity that caused these texts to spared destruction in the first place. Is it any worse than what one finds in Chaucer? Should we be trashing Chaucerian based operas by such Composers as Vaughn Williams for the same reasons?

[Nick Armstrong]

the Nazi connotations... the bawdy nature of the text

Neither of these has ever caused my any difficulty. Indeed the latter is an attraction.

Like vindepays, the piece has a modest nostalgic value for me (France, 1980s, all that 'Holy Blood & Holy Grail' nonsense which a friend and I were into at the time, and CB was the best piece to put on for a bit of 'atmos'...)

[Barbirollians]

I am not bothered about the text - it is the music I cannot stand .

I remember even the note writer for the Fruhbeck de Burgos version - seemed to hear jackboots in the motor rhythms.

[Roehre]

First, regarding the Nazi connotations, I feel obliged that the text quoted date from the Middle Ages, and didn't spring from the bowels of Dr. Goebbel's Propaganda Ministry. The Nazi's may have attempted to co opt the music, but they also did that with Mozart, Bruckner, and a host of other composers. 65 years later we can listen to the music on it's own merits (in this case, admittedly slight) and put that twaddle behind us.
Second, regarding the bawdy nature of the text, it is the over the top vulgarity that caused these texts to spared destruction in the first place. Is it any worse than what one finds in Chaucer? Should we be trashing Chaucerian based operas by such Composers as Vaughan Williams for the same reasons?

I haven't got any problems with the texts whatsoever, I concur with RFG's remarks regarding the bawdy nature of it - I enjoy the original Blaubeuren codex (Carmina Burana = [Blau]Beuren Songs), using the same texts, and sometimes even more overtly sexual or yobbish than the ones used by Orff.

It isn't the way the Nazis tried to co-opt the music either: it is the Nazi-Blut-und-Boden arrangement/composition which Orff -the Nazi who succesfully shed off his Nazi past and played/disguised as a non-Nazi-German or even an ant-Nazi after the war using a bunch of lies and testimonies of friends who had passed away in the mean time- made of these songs. They are straightforwardly Nazi-inspired songs in the same category as e.g. the Horst-Wessel-Lied, but much more dangerous, as they are disguised as honourable music.

[Ferretfancy]

Um....I always thought "In trutina" made marvellous theme music for Timewatch on BBC.

Yes, but they butchered it, so every time I heard it the awful edit jarred. Unless it's their particular field, most documentary producers are musical illiterates ( Is that the right term? anyway you get the gist. )

[BBMmk2]

Yes, but they butchered it, so every time I heard it the awful edit jarred. Unless it's their particular field, most documentary producers are musical illiterates ( Is that the right term? anyway you get the gist. )

I would say Musical P**li**in*s!!

[Roehre]

I would say Musical P**li**in*s!!

You're too kind BBM, I like this understatement of yours

[BBMmk2]

You're too kind BBM, I like this understatement of yours

Your too kind Roehre :)

[BBMmk2]

Playing Delius's Piano Concerto. Jean Roldophe Kars, LSO, Sir Alexander Gibson.

This is from Decca's Delius Edition. I do strongly urge everyone to purchase this, becuase, it's just really good value for what your getting here!

[Nick Armstrong]

I am not bothered about the text - it is the music I cannot stand.

Well on reacquaintance with the piece in the Festival Hall last night, I'm bound to say the only objectionable thing I hear in the music is too much repetition of a number of the sections, whose musical material has a superficial attraction but not enough to remain interesting more than once. Quite a few verses could have been lost from the Spring, Meadow and Tavern sections and the piece shortened by a good 20 minutes with only a gain in my vlew, But in itself I can't hear that the music is any more objectionable than - for instance - Britten's music in populist mode, like Noye's Fludde.

When played with precision and impact and attention to detail, I enjoyed hearing it again (apart from the longueurs). I think the Cour d'Amours music is particularly felicitous, and the build-up to and final reprise of the 'O Fortuna' passage was pretty thrilling - great work from the LPO percussion and brass