Elgar Falstaff

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

One reason why Falstaff isn't heard much in the concert hall is that its length of 35 minutes makes it awkward to programme. Cut down to 20 minutes it would make a good concert opener. I've heard it just once in concert: CBSO/Rattle.

But this is about the same length as The Rite of Spring or Beethoven's Fifth or Don Quixote* ... or the Enigma Variations, Pet. I think it's more a "fact" that there isn't a "big moment" in Falstaff - it's "best" features are rather low key and understated (the bassoon solo, the Dream Interludes): no big tune or climactic Tutti fortissimo that make orchestral pieces of this length popular with huge audiences.

EDIT: * = No, not DQ - that's a good five minutes or more longer.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

35 minutes was certainly an awkward length for an uninterrupted work in the days of LPs. The Barbirolli recording was initially divided over two sides, the work being a filler for a 2-LP set that included the 2nd Symphony. However, on reissue, it was squeezed on to a single side, without noticeable degradation of sound.

[Petrushka]

But this is about the same length as The Rite of Spring or Beethoven's Fifth or Don Quixote* ... or the Enigma Variations, Pet. I think it's more a "fact" that there isn't a "big moment" in Falstaff - it's "best" features are rather low key and understated (the bassoon solo, the Dream Interludes): no big tune or climactic Tutti fortissimo that make orchestral pieces of this length popular with huge audiences.

EDIT: * = No, not DQ - that's a good five minutes or more longer.

It's probably a combination of the awkward length and the factors you mention. Taken together you can see how uneasily it fits into a concert programme (beginning, middle or end?). The Rite of Spring and Beethoven 5 have a more clearly defined concert placing.

Come to think of it, I've only ever heard Don Q live once only as well (BPO/Haitink).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Come to think of it, I've only ever heard Don Q live once only as well (BPO/Haitink).

Another "awkward customer" for programmers: do you present it as a concerto with a star soloist or (as the composer intended) a showcase for the orchestra's lead 'cello & Viola?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It was the last volume published by Novello in the Elgar Complete Edition. Unfortunately, it was reproduced from a shabby-looking original, so the print quality isn't quite up to the standard of other volumes. It was to be another decade before the Elgar Society took over the edition (now about to release the 23rd volume.

[JFLL]

Another "awkward customer" for programmers: do you present it as a concerto with a star soloist or (as the composer intended) a showcase for the orchestra's lead 'cello & Viola?

Since both the symphonies are quite long, it could be programmed as the first half of a programme with either of them. (If the conductor was energetic, he might throw in Cockaigne for the orchestra to warm up.)

[Barbirollians]

Or Froissart for a change.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Or Froissart for a change.

EXCELLENT idea, Barbi: Froissart and Falstaff in the same programme!

[Pabmusic]

EXCELLENT idea, Barbi: Froissart and Falstaff in the same programme!

Really good idea. As for Falstaff, I feel that Elgar could have called it Symphony in C minor and said nothing about a programme. It could be justified (the dream interludes apart, perhaps). We'd probably then be discussing the 'meaning' of his strange third symphony.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Really good idea. As for Falstaff, I feel that Elgar could have called it Symphony in C minor and said nothing about a programme. It could be justified (the dream interludes apart, perhaps). We'd probably then be discussing the 'meaning' of his strange third symphony.

[Barbirollians]

Froissart
Falstaff

and then

Walton - music from Henry V after the interval

[Roehre]

.... As for Falstaff, I feel that Elgar could have called it Symphony in C minor and said nothing about a programme. It could be justified (the dream interludes apart, perhaps). We'd probably then be discussing the 'meaning' of his strange third symphony.

Good point. I myself wondered about this a couple of times, weirdly enough almost immediately as I heard Falstaff for the first time as part of the Barbirolli Elgar 5 LP-set from the mid 1970s (which I cherish to the present day)

[Barbirollians]

Good point. I myself wondered about this a couple of times, weirdly enough almost immediately as I heard Falstaff for the first time as part of the Barbirolli Elgar 5 LP-set from the mid 1970s (which I cherish to the present day)

There is now a 5 CD Barbirolli Elgar set going for a song on EMI - including all his late EMI recordings - Symphonies 1 & 2 , Frossart, Falstaff, Cockaigne, Enigma , P & C marches , Cello Concerto , Sea Pictures , Serenade and I and A . A wonderful set for anyone especially anyone new to Elgar.

[Pabmusic]

Good point. I myself wondered about this a couple of times, weirdly enough almost immediately as I heard Falstaff for the first time as part of the Barbirolli Elgar 5 LP-set from the mid 1970s (which I cherish to the present day)

Falstaff was first performed (Elgar conducting) at the Leeds Festival, on the same day that George Butterworth's Rhapsody: A Shropshire Lad had its premiere. The Butterworth was in the afternoon concert, conducted by Artur Nikisch, the Elgar in the evening. Butterworth attended the Elgar, but Elgar didn't go to the afternoon concert - he visited Fountains Abbey instead.

[Petrushka]

Really good idea. As for Falstaff, I feel that Elgar could have called it Symphony in C minor and said nothing about a programme. It could be justified (the dream interludes apart, perhaps). We'd probably then be discussing the 'meaning' of his strange third symphony.

I thought something remarkably similar to this when playing Strauss' Don Quixote last night. What would we have made of it had Strauss simply called it Theme and Variations for Cello and Orchestra?

As for programming Falstaff, I recall a 1990s Prom in which Ashkenazy had the novel idea of playing it as first half to Beethoven's 9th.