"Jardin des Critiques" - about the France-Musique 'blind tasting' CD review show

[Nick Armstrong]

Let us know about the Mahler 1 conclusions from across the Channel.

Triggered by Alison's wish to know more about last weekend's programme in this excellent series on France-Musique, I thought I'd start this thread for occasional comment about the works considered, starting with Mahler 1 in the 3 March edition.

The trio of reviewers was very good, two regulars plus veteran French conductor Serge Baudo.

And a fascinating programme. Of the six performances chosen for a 'blind tasting' review, two 'sacred monsters' were eliminated after the first round of listening to the end of the first movement in each of the versions.

Throughout the programme, one version stood out from the others, and it was the one eventually 'selected' - I loved it all the way through the show, was saying to myself "I must get this!".... and was as surprised as the three critics when its details were revealed right at the end.

French speakers who want to download the programme and enjoy the suspense of the 'blind' aspect of the review should be careful to avert their eyes from the lower parts of the page which opens from the link below (the bit at the top provides links for the podcast to be downloaded or the programme heard via the streaming link). There is an image of the new Fischer/Budapest version but that's not a clue to the result: it was known throughout that it was among the 6 versions, as its release was the trigger to undertake this comparative review of Mahler 1.

http://sites.radiofrance.fr/francemusique/em/jardin-critiques/emission.php?e_id=100000065&d_id=515005164&arch=1

For those who want to know the result at once, the 6 versions including the "winning" performance ("VERSION CHOISIE") are set out in detail further down the page.

[ostuni]

Thanks for the reminder - M1 downloading as I type.

[Nick Armstrong]

Thanks for the reminder - M1 downloading as I type.

I think French speakers will enjoy Serge Baudo's contribution... he goes into a slight (mock) rage during the middle of the programme, complaining about critics and wondering "why I agreed to come on this programme" ...

(He's done one of the programmes before, I recall, last year I think - can't remember which work).

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

As a long time Jardin de critiques listener (along with its excellent forerunner La tribune des critiques de disques), I welcome this thread, Caliban!

Yes, the Mahler 1 podcast was a cracker. I had been keen to hear Version No.3, but found the exaggerated slowing down towards the climax of the first movement quite bizarre. Isolated excerpts can't do justice to a whole recording, of course, but I'm less eager to hear it now, especially as No.6 struck me as quite excellent. That brisk tempo for the second movement really made me sit up! 'The reveal' was a complete surprise, as I didn't know about this particular recording. One for the wish-list.

I don't always rush to listen to the latest podcast, but tend to flit about for something that's caught my mood or perhaps relates to other things I'm writing/ researching.

Over at the other place (http://www.r3ok.com/index.php/topic,1223.0.html ) we tended to have an unwritten rule about not revealing the identities of different versions until a little further down the line. May I beg the same here?

[Nick Armstrong]

an unwritten rule about not revealing the identities of different versions until a little further down the line. May I beg the same here?

Absolument !!!!





(As it's a 2 hour programme, sometimes life doesn't permit a listen for a couple of weeks... or more... What do you think a suitable moratorium is, IGI?)

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

(As it's a 2 hour programme, sometimes life doesn't permit a listen for a couple of weeks... or more... What do you think a suitable moratorium is, IGI?)

A week? A fortnight?

My listening tends to come in patches, depending on whether I have train journeys up to London (an hour there, an hour back = one podcast). The week after next, I have seven operas in eight days (not all London), so hope to catch up with some programmes then.

[amateur51]

This is clearly such a good idea and one that Radio 3 might do well to consider as it becomes clear almost weekly that the dear old Building A Library format is creaking badly (although I still listen to it with great pleasure).

I see that the interactive forum on their website is genuinely inter-active - the programme staff reply to listeners' messages. This may/not be a great idea but it would be worth trying.

I wonder what the relative costs are?

[verismissimo]

... For those who want to know the result at once, the 6 versions including the "winning" performance ("VERSION CHOISIE") are set out in detail further down the page.

But... but... they come to the usual BAL result!

[HighlandDougie]

For me, Jardin de Critiques fulfils the dual function of helping improve my French (although it would be even better if they all spoke avec un accent niçois, like many of my neighbours) and usually being an excellent listen. I do get a bit lost sometimes when they speak very quickly and start getting a bit technical but I can mostly pick up what's being said. The chances, though, of the BBC doing something similar seem to me to be absolutely zilch. Depressing, I know, but a two-hour programme of experts talking about six recordings of a piece of classical music when you're lucky if you get more than a movement of a symphony doesn't seem very likely - and, even then, would be full of, "tweet us/e-mail us/let the world know about your views", in other words, reduce it to the level of banality of the lowest common denominator or am I being too hard on the BBC. I'll be with the next DG tomorrow afternoon so maybe I should suggest it - or maybe not. At least, while the French can be fairly insufferably intellectually arrogant, they are good at doing, "sérieux".

I discovered the version choisie of the Mahler 1 as a result of my enthusiasm for the conductor - and of a recommendation on these boards. It is almost as revelatory as Mr Z's work with his other band - and in really excellent sound. While I grew up with and got to know Mahler through Bernstein, Barbirolli, Solti, Haitink, Kletzki, Klemperer, Abravanel, Flipse, van Otterloo, Horenstein et al, there are many very fine modern recordings (such as this Mahler 1, Markus Stenz's 5th, Manfred Honeck's 3rd - and the Michael Gielen cycle) which I fear sometimes get put down just because they are not Barbirolli or Bernstein. Anyway, thanks for the thread Caliban.

[Nick Armstrong]

10.3.12 J.S.Bach Cantata BWV46

You're welcome, Dougie

A good one for early music fans in the current programme (i.e. from last Sunday), considering recordings of Bach's Cantata BWV46 Schauet doch und sehet, ob irgend ein Schmerz sei, which I confess is an unknown one to me...

The review is prompted by recent recordings by Herreweghe on his own label, and by Suzuki in the final volume of his series, issued at the end of last year apparently. So they will figure (anonymously to begin with) among four other mystery versions of the piece.

I've only just started listening to the podcast (I tend to take 10 or 15 minute bites... and go back quite a bit over examples if the critics make a comment about something I hadn't noticed). But it's wonderful stuff (part of the intro was reworked into the 'Qui tollis...' of the B minor Mass). Unusual to have trumpets in a minor-key cantata, was one of my first thoughts (I'm probably wrong about that...)

A vos postes!!

[Barbirollians]

Interesting but the jardin was surely missing some of the finest fleurs .

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

I discovered the version choisie of the Mahler 1 as a result of my enthusiasm for the conductor - and of a recommendation on these boards. It is almost as revelatory as Mr Z's work with his other band - and in really excellent sound.

I bought the version choisie of Mahler 1 yesterday, HMV having a 'buy one get one free' deal running this week, which prompted a visit to their Southampton branch before reviewing Vixen at the Mayflower. I've just given it a first spin and it is remarkably good. My only disappointment was in the third movement, where the double bass 'solo' appears to be played by the section instead. I'm trying to think of other conductors who do this... Gergiev, Haitink (Chicago)? Kenneth Woods is very interesting on the subject here:

http://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2011/05/26/bass-solo-means-solo-bass/

Otherwise, it's a splendid recording - the second movement is taken at quite a lick and the finale is visceral.

[HighlandDougie]

I have to confess that I hadn't noticed that it was the bass section (and it definitely is) rather than the solo bass but then I suspect that IGI's ears are more critically attuned than mine. Flipping between Roth and the other version I have on my Macbook where it's the solo bass (the very good Estrada-Orozco) does rather bear out Kenneth Woods's premise that the editors of the New Mahler Edition might indeed have been misled - the solo bass makes its musical point rather better than having the whole section, although the difference isn't so great that I would want to discard the otherwise, to quote IGI, "splendid", Roth. Woods' other posts (on Mahler's 6th - and 5th) make very interesting reading so many thanks, IGI, for the link.

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

No, I wouldn't want to discard it either, HD, but in a BaL-type whittling down for a single recommendation, the lack of solo bass would, I fear, do for Roth. I think it came as an especial disappointment after such a rollicking second movement which really took my breath away.

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

Just listening to Sunday's podcast featuring Le sacre du printemps, featuring recent(ish) recordings, one of which I found lovingly played but underwhelming in a (yet to be published) review. Needless to say, it 'won'...