Brahms String Quintets

[silvestrione]

I was amazed at my ignorance, when I read an informed view that Brahms' second String Quintet (which I've never heard) is a more substantial work than his Piano Quintet (which I love).

I'd be very grateful for a recommendation: which are the best recordings?

[Gordon]

I was amazed at my ignorance, when I read an informed view that Brahms' second String Quintet (which I've never heard) is a more substantial work than his Piano Quintet (which I love).

I'd be very grateful for a recommendation: which are the best recordings?

I have had this one from Hyperion for many years, very fine and decent sound too:

CDA 66804 Brahms: Raphael Ensemble
Quintet 1 in F Op 88
Quintet 2 in G Op 111
recorded St George's Bristol 18-20th April 1995

Both available from Hyperion [Quintets are on budget label] and here's a summary of critical review:

"The Raphael Ensemble was formed in 1982 with the aim of performing masterpieces of the quintet and sextet repertoire. Their debut recording of Brahms' Sextets for Hyperion Records was selected for BBC Radio 3's Critics' Choice of 1989 and Hi-Fi News and Record Review's Best Recordings of 1989."

here's the Sextets:

CDA 66276 Brahms String Sextets Raphael Ensemble
Sextet 1 in B flat Op 18
Sextet 2 in G Op 36
Recorded April 25/6th 1988

wonderful rich string sound!

[Nick Armstrong]

I too have the Raphael recordings of these amazing pieces.

And of course there is the third string quintet (inc 2 cellos) which no longer exists - the piece Brahms wrote in 1861... then destroyed, having rescored it as the Sonata for Two Pianos Op 34b, which then morphed further (with advice from Clara Schumann and Joseph Joachim) into the Piano Quintet Op 34 in 1865.

(And a recent France-Musique "Jardin des Critiques" programme on the latter brought home my ignorance - I love Brahms chamber music, I love quintets of all sorts, especially piano - but I'd never heard that one! )

[Roehre]

[COLOR="#0000FF"]....
And of course there is the third string quintet (inc 2 cellos) which no longer exists - the piece Brahms wrote in 1861... then destroyed, having rescored it as the Sonata for Two Pianos Op 34b, which then morphed further (with advice from Clara Schumann and Joseph Joachim) into the Piano Quintet Op 34 in 1865.

The string quintet in f opus 34c is not too difficult to be reconstructed.
Has IMO succesfully been done and recorded.
Has been broadcast last August on R3:
BRAHMS: String Quintet in F minor, Op. 34
Zebra String Trio, Ernst Kovacic (violin), Steven Dann (viola), Anssi Karttunen (cello), Krysia Osostowicz (violin), James Boyd (viola), Richard Lester (cello)
TOCCATA CLASSICS TOCC0066 (CD)

Brahms' quintet opus 111 was supposed to be his last work. Brahms had announced to stop composing and retire as musician. But then he heard Mühlfeld playing the clarinet, and the clarinet works followed.
The quintet is more substantial than opus 88 for a reason: it is essentially Brahms' 5th symphony in disguise. It is nearly completely based on quite extensive sketches for the 5th symphony - of which all but one (IIRC) have been destroyed by Brahms.
It is therefore not unnatural to play the work in a version for string orchestra. Has also been recorded, on Vanguard 99097 ( coupled with the 1st Serenade in its Nonet-reconstruction IIRC).

[Nick Armstrong]

More ignorance on my part successfully dispelled, danke Roehre.

This:

Brahms' quintet opus 111 was supposed to be his last work..... it is essentially Brahms' 5th symphony in disguise. It is nearly completely based on quite extensive sketches for the 5th symphony - of which all but one (IIRC) have been destroyed by Brahms.

is particularly interesting. I had no idea.

[teamsaint]

More ignorance on my part successfully dispelled, danke Roehre.

This:


is particularly interesting. I had no idea.

DO try to keep up, Cali...it may be Friday night but that is no excuse......

[Nick Armstrong]

DO try to keep up, Cali...it may be Friday night but that is no excuse......

I'm at work, matey - till gone 22:30 today....

There's a lull, just trying to improve my mind up t'Forum

[teamsaint]

I'm at work, matey - till gone 10:30 today.... There's a lull, just trying to improve my mind up t'Forum

are you sure you are at work?don't they just sling em in the cells and let them rot from now till monday morning?

Oh well, hope its a good shift, and you get to your weekend soon. (I assume you meant 22.30 !!)

Super Edit: Don't know about improving the mind, just addles mine....Whoever heard of doing the washing up to Webern?

[jayne lee wilson]

Yes, my thanks to Roehre too, I had no idea about the 5th symphony either - I'll return to this quintet with sharpened interest! One for the Tivoli tonight.

I seem to have just one CD of Op.111 - the Belcea Quartet with Thomas Kakuska (EMI). highly praised by Duncan Druce in Gramophone (4/2004), c/w a very fine Op.51/1 String Quartet. It's outstandingly well-recorded - just the right balance of blend and separation - and would make a good choice.

If the Sextets are also of interest then for me its those gorgeous Leipzigers (and friends) again on MDG Gold.

[teamsaint]

Yes, my thanks to Roehre too, I had no idea about the 5th symphony either - I'll return to this quintet with sharpened interest! One for the Tivoli tonight.

I seem to have just one CD of Op.111 - the Belcea Quartet with Thomas Kakuska. highly praised by Duncan Druce in Gramophone (4/2004), c/w a very fine Op.51/1 String Quartet. It's very beautifully recorded - just the right balance of blend and separation - and would make a good choice.

If the Sextets are also of interest then for me its those gorgeous Leipzigers (and friends) again on MDG Gold.

If ever there were works to get the very best, these are surely the ones.....so I had better do it !

[Nick Armstrong]

are you sure you are at work?don't they just sling em in the cells and let them rot from now till monday morning?

Oh well, hope its a good shift, and you get to your weekend soon. (I assume you meant 22.30 !!)

Not criminal law! If anyone ends up in the cells, I've done my job really badly...

(I amended the time to avoid misapprehensions - but you were too quick for me!)

[silvestrione]

Yes, my thanks to Roehre too, I had no idea about the 5th symphony either - I'll return to this quintet with sharpened interest! One for the Tivoli tonight.

I seem to have just one CD of Op.111 - the Belcea Quartet with Thomas Kakuska (EMI). highly praised by Duncan Druce in Gramophone (4/2004), c/w a very fine Op.51/1 String Quartet. It's outstandingly well-recorded - just the right balance of blend and separation - and would make a good choice.

If the Sextets are also of interest then for me its those gorgeous Leipzigers (and friends) again on MDG Gold.

Thanks, JLW..I was hoping someone would say that about the Belcea, as it's available for next to nothing in the marketplace.

[Thropplenoggin]

For op.111 (and op.88), the Hagen Quartett with Gérard Caussé is very fine indeed.

[JFLL]

...Whoever heard of doing the washing up to Webern?

Sounds like the tweet to end all tweets on 'Breakfast', though ...

[Serious and OT edit:] I'm very fond of the version with the Berlin Philharmonic 'Octet' (sic).

[silvestrione]

For op.111 (and op.88), the Hagen Quartett with Gérard Caussé is very fine indeed.

I'll bear these in mind, but since I could buy 4 Belcea new for the price of one used Hagen, I'll start with the former!

Thanks for all the helpful and informative comments.