Sibelius- Bournemouth/Berglund set observations ?

[Barbirollians]

So far I have played the last CD in the set except the Seventh and the First Symphony .

These are excellent , discovering the music as if it was new to the players , performances.

The First really holds together marvellously after the most atmospheric opening I can remember . The fill ups to the Seventh are all extremely fine and the King Christian excerpts most of all .

What do the rest of you think ?

[richardfinegold]

So far I have played the last CD in the set except the Seventh and the First Symphony .

These are excellent , discovering the music as if it was new to the players , performances.

The First really holds together marvellously after the most atmospheric opening I can remember . The fill ups to the Seventh are all extremely fine and the King Christian excerpts most of all .


What do the rest of you think ?

Haven't heard them. How's the 3rd? I think that is the most undervalued piece of the cycle.

[akiralx]

Haven't got this yet (I may do) but I glanced at the box - am I right in thinking there are two numbers from King Christian II? Pity the whole suite isn't included as that is a really enjoyable work, I have the Jarvi on DG which is very good.

[HighlandDougie]

Tracks 4 and 5 of CD 4 are the Nocturne and Élégie from King Christian ll. I didn't know this cycle at all but fear that I have been so brainwashed by listening to the Osmo Vanska and Sakari Oramo cycles over the past few years that, on first acquaintance, I'm not as impressed as I thought I should be. Fine orchestral playing, though. I much enjoyed Berglund's 6th and 7th with the LPO which must have been one of his last concerts with them so I suspect that I just need to get used to this Bournemouth cycle.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Berglund is very much the man to uncover the "severity of style and the profound logic that creates an inner connection between the motifs" in these works - and there is superb playing from the seasiders (particularly fine Horn playing at the start of the Fifth, for example!) and it's recorded in fine sound.

But I've never warmed to Berglund's masterly performances: everything in the score is there, precisely as the composer indicates, but somehow, for me ... Well, I prefer the approaches of Collins, Bernstein, Davis, Vanska, the infuriating, revelatory Karajan ... even Gibson (whose "attitude" perhaps most closely approaches Berglund's). And then you've asked me just when I'm renewing my adoration of the Barbirolli/Hallé set.

Regardless of my personal lack of enthusiasm for this set, there's no denying that Sibelians have an awesome range of wonderful bargains on offer at the moment. And this Bournemouth set is far superior to Berglund's later set with the COE.

[Ferretfancy]

A bit of a nostalgia trip, I know, but I've just ordered the Kajanus recordings of 3 & 5 from Naxos in re-masterings by Mark Obert Thorn. These were in the original Sibelius Society albums from the 1930s which were my first real introduction to the composer while still at school. The boxes of 78s weighed a ton !

[amateur51]

A bit of a nostalgia trip, I know, but I've just ordered the Kajanus recordings of 3 & 5 from Naxos in re-masterings by Mark Obert Thorn. These were in the original Sibelius Society albums from the 1930s which were my first real introduction to the composer while still at school. The boxes of 78s weighed a ton !

I'd welcome a report in due course about how these marvellous performances sound in this incarnation please Ferret

[Barbirollians]

FHGL - I am interested by your response . Somehow "warming " to these performances seems wrong . They are somewhat spare and rigorous but it seems very right to me - the transparent , open nature of the performances I have heard has given these works a new perspective .

I speak as like you a massive fan of the Barbirolli set . The very different nature of those recordings made me really love these works rather than just admire them and has opened my ears to these Berglund recordings that otherwise I might have found a bit cold and dead.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Somehow "warming " to these performances seems wrong . They are somewhat spare and rigorous but it seems very right to me - the transparent , open nature of the performances I have heard has given these works a new perspective .

Yes; there is much to admire in Berglund's approach - the way he presents them as clear water, disdaining circuses, insisting the listener makes the effort to come to the Music on its own terms, knowing that the effort's well worth it. But the set just doesn't set my pulse racing at the mere thought of listening to it in the way that the others I mentioned do.

I speak as like you a massive fan of the Barbirolli set . The very different nature of those recordings made me really love these works rather than just admire them and has opened my ears to these Berglund recordings that otherwise I might have found a bit cold and dead.

"Cold and dead" is how Berglund's COE set always struck me - although this has its admirers, too - not the Bournemouth cycle. It's difficult to express why, exactly, I've just never been able to submerge myself in its glacial beauties. Silly vocabulary, but the best I can do!

[Barbirollians]

No point taken - there are a number of very highly rated records in my collection that I admire but do not cherish .

Karajan's Mahler records for example.

[richardfinegold]

Yes; there is much to admire in Berglund's approach - the way he presents them as clear water, disdaining circuses, insisting the listener makes the effort to come to the Music on its own terms, knowing that the effort's well worth it. But the set just doesn't set my pulse racing at the mere thought of listening to it in the way that the others I mentioned do.


"Cold and dead" is how Berglund's COE set always struck me - although this has its admirers, too - not the Bournemouth cycle. It's difficult to express why, exactly, I've just never been able to submerge myself in its glacial beauties. Silly vocabulary, but the best I can do!

I listened to the 3rd on Spotify. I agree with Ferney. It's well played, balances are scrupulous, but somehow it sounds a bit cold and clinical.

[pastoralguy]

I heard Berglund conduct the (R)SNO at lot in the 70's & 80's and always enjoyed his no-nonsense approach. I had his Sibelius 5 on Lp and enjoyed it so, for me, this set is invaluable. It's just a pity that Ida Haendel's wonderful recording of the violin concerto was missed out.

[Ferretfancy]

I'd welcome a report in due course about how these marvellous performances sound in this incarnation please Ferret

amateur 51 ( Or may I call you amsey? It's awful! )

I've had a wonderful experience listening to the Kajanus 3 & 5, and I'm pleased to say that the re-mastering by Mark-Obert Thorn is superb. I've always enjoyed the 3rd, but it can sound repetitive in the wrong hands, not so here. Kajanus seems to point to the similarities with the Second Symphony, giving the first movement great force much more of a drama than usual, and he then follows through with a warmly played slow movement and a riveting finale. I've got several versions of this symphony, but this goes to the top of the list for me.
The same virtues are there in the 5th. One small point is that the first movement ends a little oddly, as the sweeping upward phrase in the strings gets rather buried by the brass, making the last chord seem to hang in the air unresolved. Obviously this is as originally balanced back in 1932!
You really don't need to make allowances for the historic performance or sound. Yes, one or two wind details are a little indistinct, but the whole conception carries you along. Playing this disc at a decent volume, I'm amazed at the grandeur we still hear after 81 years !

[amateur51]

amateur 51 ( Or may I call you amsey? It's awful! )

I've had a wonderful experience listening to the Kajanus 3 & 5, and I'm pleased to say that the re-mastering by Mark-Obert Thorn is superb. I've always enjoyed the 3rd, but it can sound repetitive in the wrong hands, not so here. Kajanus seems to point to the similarities with the Second Symphony, giving the first movement great force much more of a drama than usual, and he then follows through with a warmly played slow movement and a riveting finale. I've got several versions of this symphony, but this goes to the top of the list for me.
The same virtues are there in the 5th. One small point is that the first movement ends a little oddly, as the sweeping upward phrase in the strings gets rather buried by the brass, making the last chord seem to hang in the air unresolved. Obviously this is as originally balanced back in 1932!
You really don't need to make allowances for the historic performance or sound. Yes, one or two wind details are a little indistinct, but the whole conception carries you along. Playing this disc at a decent volume, I'm amazed at the grandeur we still hear after 81 years !

Call me am51, amsey or whatever as long as you call me, Ferret

Many thanks indeed for this outstanding review that makes me eager to hear these re-masterings of what were already wonderful performances

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Many thanks indeed for this outstanding review that makes me eager to hear these re-masterings of what were already wonderful performances