Malcolm Arnold Symphonies: Penny vs. Handley

[Alison]

I enjoy the symphonies on an occasional basis. Performance wise Hickox regularly disappoints me despite having the LSO at his disposal. Favourite performances are Handley in 1, the composer in 4, Gamba in 7 and Penny in 9.

[richardfinegold]

I'm pleased that many here enjoy Malcolm Arnold's symphonies, I have both the Penny and the Handley versions, but I have to confess that I don't listen to them very often. Every now and again I give them a try, but there's something about Arnold's style that simply doesn't work for me. I recognise his enormous talent, and I really have no idea why I find the music off putting, but there it is. It isn't for want of trying, and I do enjoy some of his other works,the flute concertos and the Sinfonietta for example. I think it's his noisy climaxes, but plenty of other composers have those, does anybody share my lack of enthusiasm ?

I know exactly what you mean. I suspect this was why I stopped listening to the music after being entranced by it many years ago.
Renewal of acquaintance is producing a mixture of initial attraction followed by a bit of listener fatigue.

[richardfinegold]

Richardfg

I have Penny - seems OK to me. Arguably that's not worth ripping to hard drive, as (my copy at least) the symphonies are in a fairly compact box.

My strategy, which I've by no means followed rigorously is to try to do the single jewel case CDs first, as they take up most space.

Problems: Depending on how you do the rips, you may sometimes find problems - sometimes serious.

1. For a while iTunes had some bugs, and the audio ripping of some CDs was very poor (atrocious!). I still seem to have some of those in my library - if I encounter them accidentally they produce
an ear splitting noise. The solution is to delete them and rip again - since iTunes seems OK at present.

2. Gaps between tracks can be a problem. My advice FWIW at present is to avoid any music such as variations, particularly if one variation leads directly into the next. I know it may be possible to get round this, but CD players don't normally have this problem, and you can save time by not even confronting this problem.

3. As per 2, there can also be problems with operas, for pretty much the same reason.

4. Another problem is if tracks become out of order. This can happen if the metadata associated with each track is not organised "correctly". I have had this problem with some opera downloads and CDs.
It might take longer than the time to listen to the Ring to sort this out for some material!

There have been other threads on CD ripping etc. on the Tecchies Forum.

I presume you are ripping to a lossless format. Mostly things will go OK, and you'll get benefits, but I thought I'd also mention some possible pitfalls. Good luck.

Pitfalls noted. I'm using a MacAir with an external HD and since the Air doesn't have a ripping device I bought the external Mac copier. This seems to do a better job with rips than when I previously had fed discs into a MacBook or Mini Mac; I haven't had any drop outs or gaps--yet.
I am aware of the metadata problem. I am resolving to not rip more than afew discs a day, and make sure that I edit the metadata asI go along

[EdgeleyRob]

The complete opposite for me Ff,I can't explain why his music means so much to me.
It's as if he is saying to me "this is how it is" but with music,not words.
Maybe I'm talking rubbish.

[teamsaint]

The complete opposite for me Ff,I can't explain why his music means so much to me.
It's as if he is saying to me "this is how it is" but with music,not words.
Maybe I'm talking rubbish.

No No, ER, you are bang on. I struggled for a while to understand why his symphonies had such an immediate effect, and it is exactly as you say. I ran this past Suffolkcoastal, when I suggested that his orchestration is the key (and I was chuffed when SC agreed!) He always seems to make it so easy to hear what it is he wants to tell you at any particular moment.
Perhaps viewed from another perspective this might be rather jarring...but it works for me.

[Petrushka]

I have the Handley set plus Penny in No 9 and am well pleased with them. Such a scandal that they are not heard in the concert hall but there we are. Expectations for most who don't know the music are that Arnold is a light music composer but I find the symphonies as full of anger and irony as any by Shostakovich and Mahler. The 9th is a tragic masterpiece in my opinion and shamefully neglected.

[Ferretfancy]

teamsaint and Edgeley Rob

This does illustrate how our subjective reactions to music vary. I say subjective because I'm sure that there are others on these boards who discuss Arnold's music from a technical viewpoint better than I can. I also find that as time goes by I become less adventurous in my choices, after all there is still so much to enjoy in what I already have.
That's probably a form of mental laziness, it's just that in the case of Arnold and some other composers I don't find myself going to the shelf thinking Ah! I'm just in the mood for him!

[Suffolkcoastal]

Such a scandal that they are not heard in the concert hall but there we are. Expectations for most who don't know the music are that Arnold is a light music composer but I find the symphonies as full of anger and irony as any by Shostakovich and Mahler. The 9th is a tragic masterpiece in my opinion and shamefully neglected.

Am in total agreement with that Petruska, the Penny set really brings out the anger and seem very faithful to the score, but not overplaying the music, Arnold knew exactly what he wanted say in these works and knew exactly how to express it musically. I don't think there are many more harrowing works in the symphonic repertoire as the 7th & 8th symphonies.

[Roehre]

Am in total agreement with that Petruska, the Penny set really brings out the anger and seem very faithful to the score, but not overplaying the music, Arnold knew exactly what he wanted say in these works and knew exactly how to express it musically. I don't think there are many more harrowing works in the symphonic repertoire as the 7th & 8th symphonies.

...and the ninth

[gurnemanz]

I have the Handley set plus Penny in No 9 and am well pleased with them. Such a scandal that they are not heard in the concert hall but there we are. Expectations for most who don't know the music are that Arnold is a light music composer but I find the symphonies as full of anger and irony as any by Shostakovich and Mahler. The 9th is a tragic masterpiece in my opinion and shamefully neglected.

When this thread got going I went back and played No 9 with Penny and agree with above comments. I believe it's not overstating it too much to call him "our Shosty". I checked the Prom Archive which shows that only 3 Symphonies have been performed, in stark contrast to Shostakovich.

[richardfinegold]

The complete opposite for me Ff,I can't explain why his music means so much to me.
It's as if he is saying to me "this is how it is" but with music,not words.
Maybe I'm talking rubbish.

Of course you are not talking rubbish. Music resonates with listeners in different ways. We all can point to given composers that really apppeal to us and that others have trouble appreciating.

[richardfinegold]

When this thread got going I went back and played No 9 with Penny and agree with above comments. I believe it's not overstating it too much to call him "our Shosty". I checked the Prom Archive which shows that only 3 Symphonies have been performed, in stark contrast to Shostakovich.

Was the Fourth one of them? I love the West Indies flavor of the finale.

[gurnemanz]

Was the Fourth one of them? I love the West Indies flavor of the finale.

Symphony No. 2 (three times)
BBC Symphony Orchestra (1956)
Malcolm Arnold conductor

London Symphony Orchestra
George Hurst conductor (1963)

Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra
Richard Hickox conductor (1994)

Symphony No. 3 (once only)
Malcolm Arnold conductor
London Symphony Orchestra

Symphony No. 6 (once only)
BBC Symphony Orchestra
Malcolm Arnold conductor

Only five symphony performances in total, most recently nearly twenty years ago. Not that I would complain about performing Shostakovich but his Proms symphony total is well over a hundred. The comparison does seem to indicate negligence.

[EdgeleyRob]

Symphony No. 2 (three times)
BBC Symphony Orchestra (1956)
Malcolm Arnold conductor

London Symphony Orchestra
George Hurst conductor (1963)

Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra
Richard Hickox conductor (1994)

Symphony No. 3 (once only)
Malcolm Arnold conductor
London Symphony Orchestra

Symphony No. 6 (once only)
BBC Symphony Orchestra
Malcolm Arnold conductor

Only five symphony performances in total, most recently nearly twenty years ago. Not that I would complain about performing Shostakovich but his Proms symphony total is well over a hundred. The comparison does seem to indicate negligence.

The same applies to so many British symphonists.
Disgraceful.

[teamsaint]

I don't think his Symphonies are featuring in the year long "The Rest is noise" festival at the southbank centre. i hope I am wrong, but the website is not designed for people like me.