Bruckner 8 and that great coda

[mathias broucek]

Jayne Lee - Can i hire you to become my theory music tutor? I was getting into trouble with my OU music tutor for writing in dreaded consecutive octaves and 5ths, although only in a few bars, and also for not sticking to proper musical grammer, just think i was placing a B in the melody and harmonising it with a C major chord, i think the world may end if i do that again.

Mathias Broucek - Thanks for the Celi recommendations, i think before i sample Celi in Bruckner i'll get to know him at normal speed, then i'll be ready for a slower spacious recording.

Speaking of the 4th i was listening to sections of Bohm's 1970's recording on Decca with the Vienna Phil, which is a recording i must add, i have Wand's Berlin Phil recording which i think is his best out of his late Bruckner recordings. It would be interesting to compare the 2.

As you spend more time doing it, you'll get to a point when you can HEAR the 8ves and 5ths.

Good plan on "saving" Celi

And I agree on the Wand/BPO 4th. IMHO his separate recordings are often better than his cycle - for example the aforementioned 4th and the Lubeck Cathedral 9th (IIRC the latter "won" BAL in the distant past)

[Flay]

Flay - if you have the 1975 HvK/Berlin PO version, the coda begins at 21'35 (out of 24'06). Or with Jochum/Dresden State (all too abruptly the Novak score), at 18'10 (out of 20'46). With Wand in Cologne (1979 Sendesaal - one of the greatest of all!) it's 21'26 (24'24). It starts just after the near-silence where all you hear is a couple of quiet taps on the timpani. In most performances the coda will take up the last 2.5 or 3 minutes....

Thank you for your kind reply, Jayne. I get it now, and what a wonderfully exciting coda it is.

I am always astonished by the constant and restless key changes in Bruckner's music.

[Sir Velo]

But changing to the 8th, i was wondering if anyone feels the same as me as regards the 8th's coda, why oh why does Bruckner just halt it when its beginning to get overwhelmingly brilliant.

What you need to ask yourself is: is the final climax, when it arrives, not even more magnificent, and emotionally overwhelming for having been delayed? If you find in the affirmative, then you have your answer.

[Thropplenoggin]

An excellent article as part of Tom Service's Symphony series for The Guardian on Bruckner's 8th: http://www.theguardian.com/music/tom...th-tom-service

The comments below the piece are equally worthy of a read.

[Pikaia]

BTW if your getting interested in Bruckner's codas, try Celi's Munich 4th - again on EMI or a staggering live performance from Vienna on CD in the same Sony set as the 8th above. Celi's goes half-speed and suddenly everything makes far more sense and has much greater power - Robert Simpson (in the book JLW refers to above) reckoned that Celi got this right and in doing so solved one of the performing difficulties in the 4th.

I have Celi's Munich performance of the 4th, and it is my favourite performance of the last movement. In the coda there is a pulsing two-note motif on strings which I have not noticed on any other performance, but which adds to my enjoyment of the music. I wonder why nobody else seems to play it?

[teamsaint]

Horenstein / LSO / BBC Proms 1970 on BBC Legends.
Confession time: I am biased because I was playing 1st Wagner Tuba / 5th horn in that performance... however, I am still, to this day, awestruck by the memory of Horenstein's overall, visionary mastery of tempo, balance and RHYTHM. In pursuit of the 'long line' many Bruckner 'interpreters' totally neglect his underlying, driving rhythms so that the whole thing becomes sloppy and unfocussed.
It's a very humbling experience to sit there at the start of the performance, waiting to play, waiting for the downbeat and to gaze at the face of the conductor whose countenance immediately tells you that he simply KNOWS exactly, inevitably, how the coda of the symphony is going to 'go' as well as all the wealth of detail during that long journey.
I will always remember that concert, to my dying day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36WlOfMvADE

would this be it?

[Barbirollians]

Horenstein / LSO / BBC Proms 1970 on BBC Legends.
Confession time: I am biased because I was playing 1st Wagner Tuba / 5th horn in that performance... however, I am still, to this day, awestruck by the memory of Horenstein's overall, visionary mastery of tempo, balance and RHYTHM. In pursuit of the 'long line' many Bruckner 'interpreters' totally neglect his underlying, driving rhythms so that the whole thing becomes sloppy and unfocussed.
It's a very humbling experience to sit there at the start of the performance, waiting to play, waiting for the downbeat and to gaze at the face of the conductor whose countenance immediately tells you that he simply KNOWS exactly, inevitably, how the coda of the symphony is going to 'go' as well as all the wealth of detail during that long journey.
I will always remember that concert, to my dying day.

Having snapped up a second hand copy recently I finally listened to this today . Very fine indeed especially the Adagio and the Finale - the latter movement can seem to go on for ages but not this time.

[vibratoforever]

I was in the Albert Hall in 1970 to hear Horenstein conduct this symphony. I was also in there in the 90s to hear Gunter Wand, and he gets my vote every day of the week.

[Barbirollians]

I was in the Albert Hall in 1970 to hear Horenstein conduct this symphony. I was also in there in the 90s to hear Gunter Wand, and he gets my vote every day of the week.

Heard his sensational Ninth in 2001 but not his Eighth.

[richardfinegold]

I was in the Albert Hall in 1970 to hear Horenstein conduct this symphony. I was also in there in the 90s to hear Gunter Wand, and he gets my vote every day of the week.

Yes, I came across the Horenstein that Barbs apparently has just purchased this past weekend as I have been rearranging my CDs and played a bit of it. It was my introduction to piece and my only version for years. Subsequently I obtained the Jochum/Dresden set which familiarized me with all the Bruckner Symphonies, but it was Wand that really made Bruckner a vital force for me.

[mathias broucek]

Yes, I came across the Horenstein that Barbs apparently has just purchased this past weekend as I have been rearranging my CDs and played a bit of it. It was my introduction to piece and my only version for years. Subsequently I obtained the Jochum/Dresden set which familiarized me with all the Bruckner Symphonies, but it was Wand that really made Bruckner a vital force for me.

You should listen to the Wand from Lubeck Cathedral...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bruckner-Symphonies-No-Gunter-Wand/dp/B00SRVC3RM/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Schleswig-Holstein+wand+bruckner&qid=1586963262&sr=8-2

[Goon525]

Just in passing, the Bruckner 8 that is this month’s freebie with BBC MM is very good indeed. OK, the BBC SSO aren’t the Berlin Phil, but their playing is excellent. And Runnicles is a top-notch Bruckner conductor (as he is of Wagner), as the same combo’s 7th on Hyperion a few years ago also demonstrated. I’ve seen Karajan and Haitink perform the 8th live, and Runnicles is worthy of mentioning in the same sentence. Worth the price of the mag even if you don’t usually buy it.

[Bryn]

Just in passing, the Bruckner 8 that is this month’s freebie with BBC MM is very good indeed. OK, the BBC SSO aren’t the Berlin Phil, but their playing is excellent. And Runnicles is a top-notch Bruckner conductor (as he is of Wagner), as the same combo’s 7th on Hyperion a few years ago also demonstrated. I’ve seen Karajan and Haitink perform the 8th live, and Runnicles is worthy of mentioning in the same sentence. Worth the price of the mag even if you don’t usually buy it.

And he uses the 1889-90 version as edited by Nowak, rather than the 'pick and mix' of the 1889-90 and 1887 versions as edited by Haas (with linking passagework by the editor.)

[Barbirollians]

You should listen to the Wand from Lubeck Cathedral...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bruckner-Sy...6963262&sr=8-2

I was rather disappointed by that recording . His late BPO record on RCA is stupendous.

[richardfinegold]

I was rather disappointed by that recording . His late BPO record on RCA is stupendous.

I have the BPO