Bach's St John Passion - any recommendations?

[umslopogaas]

M13 Bert Coules

Yes, David Ward as Jesus, Peter Pears as Evangelist, Lindsay Heather as Pilate, Brian Etheridge as Peter, Robert Tear as A Servant. Also featuring Elizabeth Harwood, Helen Watts, Alexander Young, Hervey Alan. Not to mention some pretty impressive instrumental soloists: Kenneth Heath (cello), Francis Baines (double bass), Thurston Dart (harpsichord), Simon Preston (organ). Philomusica of London (was this an orchestra put together specially for recording, I've not otherwise heard of them?) and choir of King's College Cambridge directed by David Willcocks, recorded in the chapel. Argo ZRG 5322, dated 1960 and, according to the sleeve, a highlights disc from the complete work on Argo ZRG 5270-2, which I've never seen.

And another post (Mary?), no, I dont actually find it dull - Bach can be academic at times, but not here, and he's never dull - its just that the passions dont connect. For me, I think it is something to do with the religion: I'm not religious and although I can usually engage with Bach because of the musical qualities, the overt weeping and grovelling of the passions really repels me, wonderful music not withstanding.

If you can sing well enough to be in a choir, then you are very fortunate, it must bring a whole new dimension to music. Unfortunately, I cant and that's not just my opinion, it was confirmed by a professional. When I was admitted to my public school in the early 1960s, all new boys had to audition for the choir. We all lined up in the music master's study and stepped up one by one to the piano. My audition went like this: "Next." Plays a note. "Sing that." I try. "Thank you. Next." And that was that.

[Mary Chambers]

And another post (Mary?), no, I dont actually find it dull - Bach can be academic at times, but not here, and he's never dull - its just that the passions dont connect. For me, I think it is something to do with the religion: I'm not religious and although I can usually engage with Bach because of the musical qualities, the overt weeping and grovelling of the passions really repels me, wonderful music not withstanding.

Fair enough. I know people who would agree with you. I'm not religious either, and I always saw it as a dramatic story well told in the music. It's almost like opera in places - the chorus changing character from mob to reflective commentary. I've sung it in both German and English, but German is best (though not perhaps for an English audience).

The only recording I have now is the Britten, though I think I once had the Willcocks one as well. Someone once described Pears as ' The Archangel of Evangelists', and certainly he was very much in demand by Dutch and German conductors as well as in Britain. He always sounds so convincing. However, I don't collect recordings, so I really have no right to be on the CD Review threads.

[gurnemanz]

Preferably with German forces, especially the choir

I heard the St John Passion a while ago in situ, so to speak, at the Thomaskirche in Leipzig under Hans-Joachim Rotzsch with the Thomaner Boys Choir and the Gewandhaus Ochestra. I have this very good recording with Peter Schreier as soloist.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-John-Passion-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B00002556J/ref=dp_return_1?ie=UTF8&n=229816&s=music

[doversoul1]

However, I don't collect recordings, so I really have no right to be on the CD Review threads.

Oh, Mary. Don’t say that!! I don’t sing, I don’t play any musical instrument, I don’t collect CDs, I don’t know any musical theories and I don’t whatever… Then I shouldn’t be on this Forum at all!! As long as we listen to Radio3, that’s all we need (well, that's what I hope …).

As for the Passions, the Paul McCreesh / Gabrieli Players is OVPP, is it not? I am not too keen on St Matthew in this form. How does it work with St John?

[makropulos]

I'd just like to second a couple of those already recommended: Britten (Decca) and Jochum (Philips). I find both of them extremely moving. I haven't yet found a period-instrument version of this great work that I really like but I want to try a couple of those mentioned by others on this thread.

I'll join Alpensinfonie in the laughing-stock corner in that Münchinger can be terrific in the "big" Bach choral pieces, but sadly, I don't think his St John is anywhere near as good as his St Matthew.

[Franzl01]

M13 Bert Coules

Yes, David Ward as Jesus, Peter Pears as Evangelist, Lindsay Heather as Pilate, Brian Etheridge as Peter, Robert Tear as A Servant. Also featuring Elizabeth Harwood, Helen Watts, Alexander Young, Hervey Alan. Not to mention some pretty impressive instrumental soloists: Kenneth Heath (cello), Francis Baines (double bass), Thurston Dart (harpsichord), Simon Preston (organ). Philomusica of London (was this an orchestra put together specially for recording, I've not otherwise heard of them?) and choir of King's College Cambridge directed by David Willcocks, recorded in the chapel. Argo ZRG 5322, dated 1960 and, according to the sleeve, a highlights disc from the complete work on Argo ZRG 5270-2, which I've never seen.

And another post (Mary?), no, I dont actually find it dull - Bach can be academic at times, but not here, and he's never dull - its just that the passions dont connect. For me, I think it is something to do with the religion: I'm not religious and although I can usually engage with Bach because of the musical qualities, the overt weeping and grovelling of the passions really repels me, wonderful music not withstanding.

If you can sing well enough to be in a choir, then you are very fortunate, it must bring a whole new dimension to music. Unfortunately, I cant and that's not just my opinion, it was confirmed by a professional. When I was admitted to my public school in the early 1960s, all new boys had to audition for the choir. We all lined up in the music master's study and stepped up one by one to the piano. My audition went like this: "Next." Plays a note. "Sing that." I try. "Thank you. Next." And that was that.

The Philomusica was the 'successor' to the Boyd Neel Orchestra when Boyd Neel went off to Canada, I think.

Regards
Franzl 01

[Chris Newman]

Re my Message 6. Apologies. As explained in the "How accurate is the Proms Archive?" thread I made a complete cock-up. My memory let me down. Yes there is a Jochum St John Passion on record but I never heard him conduct one live at the Proms. I do not know how I mixed it all up but it was 1971 when I heard Jochum and the Concertgeboew and it was in Beethoven's Missa Solemnis. Sorry. It was forty years ago. I'll get my zimmer frame.

Whilst dangling wishful carrots I hope that somewhere there is a tape of one that Mackerras did with Norman Bailey and Alexander Young.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'll join Alpensinfonie in the laughing-stock corner in that Münchinger can be terrific in the "big" Bach choral pieces, but sadly, I don't think his St John is anywhere near as good as his St Matthew.

His "St Matthew" is indeed phenominal - perhaps the best of his Bach recordings (the Brandenburgs guarding the rear).

[Steerpike]

Chris - your #22

I remember that performance well (I think!). It seemed to me that Jochum was taking each line of the text and playing it separately and that these 'statements' were more important to him than the overall sweep. Yet it worked wonderfully. He looked after the pennies and the pounds really did look after themselves. I guess that took a lot of musical experience and, in the best sense, cunning.

[BBMmk2]

I have Sir John Eliot Gardiner's account. But I didn't know that Higginbottom did one?

[Chris Newman]

Well, after making a fool of myself with imagined performances of Bach conducted by Jochum I see that the 1960 Jochum recording of the St John Passion is re-issued next month on the Andromeda label:

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/NR_February11/ANDRCD9080.htm

[johnb]

I have the Suzuki recording and very much enjoy it. (Actually I have the DVD version but often just listen to the audio.)

[MickyD]

I have Sir John Eliot Gardiner's account. But I didn't know that Higginbottom did one?

Yes, it's on Naxos and well worth a listen.

[Bert Coules]

Many thanks for all these suggestions. I've gone for Andrew Parrott. The friend for whom it was a present is delighted with it, and I shall get a second copy for myself. I do wish though that the old Argo Willcocks recording in English was still around.

[vinteuil]

Many thanks for all these suggestions. I've gone for Andrew Parrott. The friend for whom it was a present is delighted with it, and I shall get a second copy for myself. .

I'm delighted to hear this - the Parrott / Taverner is indeed excellent. I hope you and your friend have many happy years enjoying this glorious performance of a great work.