Klemperer's 'Failures'

[Mandryka]

Such a relief, as Franck was Belgian

Wrong! He was born in Liege, which was part of THE NETHERLANDS, at the time of his birth, in 1822.

His career was in Paris and his work tends to be identified as 'French'.

As someone who insists on the 'northernness' of Denis Healey, Amy, I'm confident that you'll concede defeat on this vital point. :)

[Mandryka]

Not exactly a failure but I would not put his 'New World' in my top 10 Klemperer recordings ot my top 10 Dvo 9s!

This one also impressed me. Not a piece I'm that fond of but OK - as usual - shakes off the cliches and makes us hear anew.

[amateur51]

Wrong! He was born in Liege, which was part of THE NETHERLANDS, at the time of his birth, in 1822.

His career was in Paris and his work tends to be identified as 'French'.

As someone who insists on the 'northernness' of Denis Healey, Amy, I'm confident that you'll concede defeat on this vital point. :)

And it became Belgian, nichts?

And, as a lover of the English language, I should concede victory, not defeat.

But I shall not be doing that

[vinteuil]

Franck was born in Liège which was indeed at that time under Netherlandish control, following the collapse of Napoleonic France and before the creation of Belgium.

But (given his parentage) actually Franck was - German....

[amateur51]

Franck was born in Liège which was indeed at that time under Netherlandish control, following the collapse of Napoleonic France and before the creation of Belgium.

But (given his parentage) actually Franck was - German....

Tricky chaps, these furriners

[Mandryka]

And it became Belgian, nichts?

And, as a lover of the English language, I should concede victory, not defeat.

But I shall not be doing that

Your English isn't bad for someone whose first language is polari.

[Barbirollians]

Mandryka - surely the fact that he was born in what was politically at the time the Netherlands cannot prevent Franck being a Belgian . That would make Chopin a Russian rather than Polish ?

It would make Dvorak an Austro-Hungarian too !

[amateur51]

Your English isn't bad for someone whose first language is polari.

like you'd know?

English was not my first language, as it goes, hence my attachment to trying to get it rignt

[richardfinegold]

OT, but the debate of Franck's nationality is a microcosm of the perennial debate with Belgium itself, a small country with at least 4 languages in common use.

[Karafan]

Oh dear, I sense we may soon take a departure down the "if my cat his kittens in a kipper box...." route!

K.

[Barbirollians]

Getting back to the music I have found the Schumann symphonies a bit hard going- perhaps I have got too used to Szell and Kubelik .

[Alain Maréchal]

OT, but the debate of Franck's nationality is a microcosm of the perennial debate with Belgium itself, a small country with at least 4 languages in common use.

I have personal experience of that: my paternal grandmother was the protestant francophone Bourgmeistre of a catholic dutch-speaking village within catholic francophone Wallonie, and it was only her personal prestige which kept her in the post, plus a willingness metaphorically to bang heads together. These divisons can't be explained logically, just accepted, but often aren't, hence the difficulties. I thought the fuss was dying down about twenty years ago, but lately seem to have reappeared, triggered by the economic crisis: as usual haves dislike subsidising have-nots, even when they themselves had been subsidised in the past.

Pedantic point which I could make more clearly if this keyboard had the correct orthographic marks: until the mid twentieth century Liege had an acute accent on the e, thus better rhyming with its dutch-speaking name of Luijk. Francophones changed it to a grave accent so it would sound french (but the acute accent is still there in the Cafe or the Chocolat!)

back to the thread: when there is such a towering musical personality as OK, I find his view of apparently unsympathetic music interesting. He could probably have shed some useful light on Elgar.

[vinteuil]

I

Pedantic point which I could make more clearly if this keyboard had the correct orthographic marks: until the mid twentieth century Liege had an acute accent on the e, thus better rhyming with its dutch-speaking name of Luijk. Francophones changed it to a grave accent so it would sound french (but the acute accent is still there in the Cafe or the Chocolat!)
.

... indeed yes - and café liégeois is really Viennese anyway...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Café_liégeois

[Nick Armstrong]

until the mid twentieth century Liege had an acute accent on the e, thus better rhyming with its dutch-speaking name of Luijk. Francophones changed it to a grave accent so it would sound french (but the acute accent is still there in the Cafe or the Chocolat!)

Saperlipopette!!

... indeed yes - and café liégeois is really Viennese anyway...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Café_liégeois

...et nom d'une pipe!!

Je me coucherai moins bête ce soir... ou sinon mieux informé...

[Barbirollians]

Didn't Otto refuse to have anything to do with Elgar and refuse to conduct the Enigma Variations at the Festival of Britain?