Brahms Symphony No1

[Colonel Danby]

I'm afraid I shall have to disagree with you BLs, as Norrington as part of his complete cycle of Brahms symphonies on EMI Reflexe series outswaggers the lot of them. I know I'm slightly biased in his favour (and I admit to being in a minority of one on this) but where his accounts of this composer and Beethoven, Schumann and Wagner are concerned, his scholarship and enthusiasm carry the day.

Has a symphony ever been luckier on record ? I thought I had all bases covered with Furtwangler, Boult, Walter ( Col and NYPO), Jochum's lovely EMI account, Loughran , Sanderling ,the live RFH Karajan , Toscanini , Barbirolli , Abbado and Alsop and have got much pleasure from all of them probably Furtwangler most of all

Along then comes the Cantelli and it is like hearing it for the first time .

Which performance is your favourite and am I missing out on any other sensational recording ???

PS Not the Norrington/LCP - all over the place as far as my ears hear it .

When was it last on BAL ?

[LeMartinPecheur]

AHEM!! It was "never mentioned" quite favourably in #18, LMP.



If your "musical mate" spits at the neglect of this superb Musician, I second his sentiments if not his expectorant medium of expression. If his phlegmatic response is in contempt of Loughran as a conductor, then I humbly suggest that the epithet "musical" for your "mate" is severely inaccurate!


Not really. As I understand it, the Hallé got concerned at the emphasis Loughran placed on the "core repertoire" (Beethoven - Elgar) and wanted someone more interested in contemporary Music - and with a bigger international profile. Loughran then moved to Germany and then Denmark and Japan and was rather lost from UK performances. A great pity: in the late '70s and early '80s, no conductor's live concerts had a greater influence on my Musical education.

I think that a fellow Forumista (can't remember which) has contact with him via a golf-playing mutual friend.

fhg: my apologies for missing the earlier favourable mention of Loughran.

'fraid my friend is intensely musical and we agree about a lot (though I'm not saying that this necessarily makes me musical).

I really have no view on Loughran at all. I've never I think heard him live and would really struggle to find any of his recordings among my 5000-odd discs. But I was still surprised by my mate's loathing, though that I suppose just shows how diverse and unprovable musical opinions are.

Hence much argument on these boards...

[Bryn]

It's a long time since I last listened to the CfP LPs of Loughran's Brahms. However, I do have fond memories of them and prompted by the discussion here have just ordered a "Used - Like New" 4 CD set of them, plus the Violin Concerto, etc. from anAmazon marketplace vendor. I look forward to listening to them again.

[Beef Oven]

Has anyone mentioned Paavo Berglund & The Chamber Orchestra Of Europe? I am fond of this set. Not a first choice, but a good supplimentary. For me, it's Abbado and the BPO and Karajan (various).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

fhg: my apologies for missing the earlier favourable mention of Loughran.

'fraid my friend is intensely musical and we agree about a lot (though I'm not saying that this necessarily makes me musical).

I really have no view on Loughran at all. I've never I think heard him live and would really struggle to find any of his recordings among my 5000-odd discs. But I was still surprised by my mate's loathing, though that I suppose just shows how diverse and unprovable musical opinions are.

Hence much argument on these boards...

[richardfinegold]

I've just listened to that Chessky CD to remind myself how excellent it is!
However:
the RPO play the Wagner Bacchanale (Tannhauser)
BUT it's the LSO who play Brahms #1.

I stand corrected. I had thought that the Chessky Horenstein reissues were all taken from the REaders Digest Series, and I had thought that JH's recordings for that series were all made with the Royal Philharmonic, and that JH's LSO recordings were originally for labels such as Unicorn. Perhaps someone can clear up my confusion on this issue.

[richardfinegold]

Has anyone mentioned Paavo Berglund & The Chamber Orchestra Of Europe? I am fond of this set. Not a first choice, but a good supplimentary. For me, it's Abbado and the BPO and Karajan (various).

I have that set downloaded on my phone (Amazon was selling it for about a dollar per symphony). It is my principal source of Brahms listening when I am on vacation and highly recommended.

[Barbirollians]

Norrington's LCP 1 was the only one of his Brahms symphonies I bought . Sounds like a run through with interesting old instruments not an interpretation.

[Beef Oven]

I have that set downloaded on my phone (Amazon was selling it for about a dollar per symphony). It is my principal source of Brahms listening when I am on vacation and highly recommended.

[Nick Armstrong]

I see that the performance on the LPO label is from 1992 so must have been one of KT's last performances anywhere.

The 1990 is joyous beyond measure and I can't wait to hear the new one.

I have that 1990 one (great) and an earlier studio LPO/Tennstedt from 1983 I think, on EMI, which I have also always loved.

I find I have an unconscionable* number of performances of Brahms 1

Apart from the above, another treasured one is another live performance very late in a superlative career, and one I attended: Karajan's with the BPO in the RFH in 1988. Unmatchable for personal reasons, exceptional on any grounds.

I love Bruno Walter and the Columbia SO.

I also have:

- the digital Karajan studio version
- Jurowski/LPO - (I agree with the comment above about it having oddities - not up to the No. 2 in the same 2-CD set)
- Haitink/Concertgebouw
- Toscanini/NBC
- Furtwängler 1947 Lucerne
- Furtwängler 1951 Hamburg
- Rattle BPO

and a couple of others I've forgotten...


-------

*It's partly because I've played first trombone in Brahms 1 a few times and the first entry is one of the most nerve-wracking things anywhere: a high A marked "p dolce" which you have to float out of nowhere having not played anything other than a couple of pp notes for at least 40 minutes (there are no 'bones in the first three movements). It's a tricky note on the instrument at the best of times. Few sensations of relief and pleasure can match that of "nailing" it, in mellifluous harmony with one's two fellows

There's an interesting comment about it just after the relevant musical illustration here:

http://basstrombonist.blogspot.co.uk/2007/10/brahms-symphony-no-1.html

Anyway, I wanted to hear how it was managed in a number of great recordings, hence a few of the purchases...

[BBMmk2]

Haitink has done two cycles at least(?). Which is the best because either with the RCO or LSO?

[amateur51]

I have that 1990 one (great) and an earlier studio LPO/Tennstedt from 1983 I think, on EMI, which I have also always loved.

I find I have an unconscionable* number of performances of Brahms 1

Apart from the above, another treasured one is another live performance very late in a superlative career, and one I attended: Karajan's with the BPO in the RFH in 1988. Unmatchable for personal reasons, exceptional on any grounds.

I love Bruno Walter and the Columbia SO.

I also have:

- the digital Karajan studio version
- Jurowski/LPO - (I agree with the comment above about it having oddities - not up to the No. 2 in the same 2-CD set)
- Haitink/Concertgebouw
- Toscanini/NBC
- Furtwängler 1947 Lucerne
- Furtwängler 1951 Hamburg
- Rattle BPO

and a couple of others I've forgotten...


-------

*It's partly because I've played first trombone in Brahms 1 a few times and the first entry is one of the most nerve-wracking things anywhere: a high A marked "p dolce" which you have to float out of nowhere having not played anything other than a couple of pp notes for at least 40 minutes (there are no 'bones in the first three movements). It's a tricky note on the instrument at the best of times. Few sensations of relief and pleasure can match that of "nailing" it, in mellifluous harmony with one's two fellows

There's an interesting comment about it just after the relevant musical illustration here:

http://basstrombonist.blogspot.co.uk/2007/10/brahms-symphony-no-1.html

Anyway, I wanted to hear how it was managed in a number of great recordings, hence a few of the purchases...

Triffic post Calibano!

Thanks too for the trombone blog link - very interesting for a non-musician

[Tony Halstead]

Norrington's LCP 1 was the only one of his Brahms symphonies I bought . Sounds like a run through with interesting old instruments not an interpretation.

On a 'run through' I doubt that even the world's most sensitive and 'musical' timpani player would think of playing meticulously 'phrased-off'/ tapered bar endings on those groups of six ( slurred!) notes per bar in the introduction. Those classically poised, self-contained timpani gestures ( beautifully realised by that great player Robert Howes) are a very small part of RN's superb interpretation of the symphony, and it is indeed an interpretation.
What we usually hear is a crass, decibally over-the-top pounding of six ruthlessly even notes with no differentiation between starts and ends of bars.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I've often regretted that Norrington used valved horns in his Brahms recordings, even though the composer's score cries out for natural horns. The argument has always been that in Brahms' time, valved horns would have been used, but surely that is not a conclusive argument for overriding the score? I am no HIPPster, but I think this was a missed opportunity. Didn't JEG use natural horns?

[Nick Armstrong]

Triffic post Calibano!

Thanks too for the trombone blog link - very interesting for a non-musician

Cheers... Actually when I wrote my PS I hadn't seen HS's post referring to the same high-A trombone entry in

[Toscanini's] series of concerts in the RFH with the Philharmonia....
... and in Symphony Nº 1, the Principal trombone made such a mess of that important high entry (concert A) at the beginning of the finale that he never played for the Philharmonia again and, in fact, departed to Canada, where he signed on in an army band!
HS

Glad I hadn't heard that story before playing the damn thing!