Vaughan Williams: The symphonies

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I've tried very hard with the 9th, trying to convince myself that it's as good as the rest. So far I've failed in my quest.

[richardfinegold]

I don't think so Micky. I'm very far from being a Norrington fan, but in fairness he conducted a fine performance of the London Symphony at the Proms a few years ago.

he's such a stickler for original instruments, it makes me wonder how he managed to get Big Ben into the concert hall.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

he's such a stickler for original instruments, it makes me wonder how he managed to get Big Ben into the concert hall.

He pulled a few strings.

[BBMmk2]

He pulled a few strings.

He mustve been gutted!

Seriously thoug, the 8th and 9th do sem a world away from the preious symphonies, imo.

[teamsaint]

He mustve been gutted!

Seriously thoug, the 8th and 9th do sem a world away from the preious symphonies, imo.

Have to say I agree with you on this BBM. Though I enjoy them,I feel they have secrets I am yet to discover. Maybe different recordings, or hearing them live is what I need.

[Pabmusic]

He mustve been gutted!

Seriously thoug, the 8th and 9th do sem a world away from the preious symphonies, imo.

Yes they are. But ,more than that, can you think of any composer of a comparable body of work whose every piece (symphony, sonata, or whatever) is so different from its predecessors? I think it's remarkable.

[rauschwerk]

Seriously thoug, the 8th and 9th do sem a world away from the preious symphonies, imo.

To me, the most striking thing about the 8th is the unbuttoned gaiety of the finale. It was the first of the nine that I got to know, and to be honest I can't understand how anyone can fail to grasp it in a hearing or two. The first movement, though carefully organised, is not hard to grasp once the opening motifs are lodged in the mind. Perhaps the composer comes close to repeating himself in the Cavatina but that seems to me a minor blemish in a hugely enjoyable work.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

he's such a stickler for original instruments, it makes me wonder how he managed to get Big Ben into the concert hall.

Actually, he has had very little interest in original instruments for many years - just a fictitious method of string playing that has created something of a bandwagon.

[Barbirollians]

Off with your head !

Have you tried the Haitink 9 EA ? I find that very convincing.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... to be honest I can't understand how anyone can fail to grasp it in a hearing or two.

- you couldn't try being a trifle more dishonest, could you, rausch?

Being equally frank, I think I do "grasp it": it's just that I don't think it's particularly good! And, I add again; YET!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Off with your head !

Have you tried the Haitink 9 EA ? I find that very convincing.

No, but I shall do. Thanks!

[Barbirollians]

I see there is a Barbirolli live 4th just issued by the barbirolli society from 1950 . Anyone heard it ?

[Petrushka]

The first RVW symphony I got to know was the 9th when I purchased Boult's EMI LP in preperation for a live performance from James Loughran and the Halle in 1976 as I had never heard the piece before.

Thinking back, I do seem to have started by getting to know most composer's final symphonies first then going backwards (though not, of course, in strict sequence).

Haitink's 7th is a tremendous recording with a thrilling, floor-shaking organ entry in the third movement.

[Beef Oven]

As with the Carl Nielsen Symhpnoy thread, there has been an embryonic start of RVW's great Symphonic canon. I have Vernon handlkey's and Sir Andrew Davis's. i kinow people have discussed some cycles, but it be quite interesting to see their views in more depth?

I must be missing something here with the AD cycle, which some people find that the 6th is the best one?

For the record, I attended a performance of the sixth by AD in London in the mid to late noughties and it was attrocious. Bad day at the office?

[richardfinegold]

Yes they are. But ,more than that, can you think of any composer of a comparable body of work whose every piece (symphony, sonata, or whatever) is so different from its predecessors? I think it's remarkable.

To summarize some of the ideas in this thread, when one considers the stylistic evolution from the "Sea" and the "London" Symphonies to the world of the last two symphonies, it is a very interesting road that RVW traveled. Without ever adopting some of the trends of the time, such as polytonality and serialism, there is still quite an evolution in the language and chromaticism of this fascinating composer.
I love the 3rd Symphony, and it is amusing in retrospect to read all of the criticisms of RVW that appeared after this work ("English Cowpat"). He wrote the work on the battlefields of Flanders, and to me the music has always seemed like a lament for a world that must of have seemed so benevolent compared to the incredible carnage that he was enmeshed in. Then the fury of the $th, the indescribeble beauty of the 5th and the horrifying visions ofthe 6th are ultimately replaced by the more impersonal, but no less vivid, music of the last 3 Symphonies. Mahler's compositional voice undergoes a similar evolution between his 4th and 5th Symphonies.
I wonder what RVW's Uncle, Charles Darwin, would have had to say about his Nephew's musical evolution?