Vaughan Williams: The symphonies

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Too long and rambling for my taste ….

The Sea Symphony influenced this week's BaL work, Delius's Sea Drift, also a Walt Whitman setting.

[makropulos]

The Sea Symphony influenced this week's BaL work, Delius's Sea Drift, also a Walt Whitman setting.

How so?? Sea Drift was finished in 1904 and first performed in 1906; the Sea Symphony was composed 1903-9 and first performed in 1910. So just how did the Sea Symphony influence Sea Drift?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

How so?? Sea Drift was finished in 1904 and first performed in 1906; the Sea Symphony was composed 1903-9 and first performed in 1910. So just how did the Sea Symphony influence Sea Drift?

Stupid error. I thought I'd typed ". . . was influenced by. . ." I'll have to double check in future. Next I'll be saying Elgar's Dream of Gerontius cribbed a theme from A Sea Symphony.

[Ferretfancy]

Stupid error. I thought I'd typed ". . . was influenced by. . ." I'll have to double check in future. Next I'll be saying Elgar's Dream of Gerontius cribbed a theme from A Sea Symphony.

It might have been a bit more enjoyable if it had!

[Pabmusic]

It might have been a bit more enjoyable if it had!

?? Does that mean A Sea Symphony would be more enjoyable if RVW had not cribbed a theme from Gerontius? (Rather a prominent one at that!)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

?? Does that mean A Sea Symphony would be more enjoyable if RVW had not cribbed a theme from Gerontius? (Rather a prominent one at that!)

No, I think Ferretf was rather suggesting that DoG "might have been a bit more enjoyable" if it had cribbed material from RVW. An expression of Ferretf's dislike of DoG than a suggestion of a literal possibility, I understood.

[Pabmusic]

No, I think Ferretf was rather suggesting that DoG "might have been a bit more enjoyable" if it had cribbed material from RVW. An expression of Ferretf's dislike of DoG than a suggestion of a literal possibility, I understood.

[BBMmk2]

No, I think Ferretf was rather suggesting that DoG "might have been a bit more enjoyable" if it had cribbed material from RVW. An expression of Ferretf's dislike of DoG than a suggestion of a literal possibility, I understood.

How can anyone, not liker DoG?

[Pabmusic]

How can anyone, not liker DoG?

I agree, BBM. And the "Go forth in the Lord" phrase seems to have inspired RVW (Sea Symphony and London Symphony).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I agree, BBM. And the "Go forth in the Lord" phrase seems to have inspired RVW (Sea Symphony and London Symphony).

Although RVW denied certain aspects of a similar inspiration:

I do not consider that the opening of my London Symphony is a crib from the beginning of part 2 of "Gerontius" (indeed, my friends assure me that it is, as a matter of fact, a compound of Debussy's "La Mer" and Charpentier's "Louise"



... he is remarkably candid about other aspects of DoG that were significant to him:

I find that the Elgar phrase which influenced me most was "Thou art calling me" (vocal score page 7, fifth bar of Figure 22) - not so much perhaps in its original form as when it comes later on in combination with another theme (eg, p.19, figure 37). For proof of this see "Sea Symphony" (vocal score p. 84, nine bars before letter B) and "London Symphony" (full score p. 16, letter H).

from What have we learnt from Elgar?, first published in "Music & Letters", Jan 1935. Republished in Christopher REDWOOD (ed): An Elgar Companion.

[BBMmk2]

With reference to the Debussy La Mer, are they talking about the opening of the first movement?

[Beef Oven!]

With reference to the Debussy La Mer, are they talking about the opening of the first movement?

No, it's the bit at about quarter to twelve.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

No, it's the bit at about quarter to twelve.

With the Westminster Chimes added!

RVW doesn't specify, Bbm, but the bit you mention is the one that sounds most like the opening of the London Symphony to me, so I presume so!

[BBMmk2]

With the Westminster Chimes added!

RVW doesn't specify, Bbm, but the bit you mention is the one that sounds most like the opening of the London Symphony to me, so I presume so!

Yes, shades of Eastbourne, maybe? :)

[Pabmusic]

Although RVW denied certain aspects of a similar inspiration:

I do not consider that the opening of my London Symphony is a crib from the beginning of part 2 of "Gerontius" (indeed, my friends assure me that it is, as a matter of fact, a compound of Debussy's "La Mer" and Charpentier's "Louise"



... he is remarkably candid about other aspects of DoG that were significant to him:

I find that the Elgar phrase which influenced me most was "Thou art calling me" (vocal score page 7, fifth bar of Figure 22) - not so much perhaps in its original form as when it comes later on in combination with another theme (eg, p.19, figure 37). For proof of this see "Sea Symphony" (vocal score p. 84, nine bars before letter B) and "London Symphony" (full score p. 16, letter H).

from What have we learnt from Elgar?, first published in "Music & Letters", Jan 1935. Republished in Christopher REDWOOD (ed): An Elgar Companion.

Yes, I've seen the RVW quote before, and the phrase is the one I'd remembered (though I was thinking of its grand use in "Go forth" at 76).