Zander's Bruckner 5

[mathias broucek]

I was looking at the Gramo "Best Bruckner recordings" the other day.

Whilst there were some choices I agree with (e.g. Tintner's 1st) there were also some rather odd choices such as Tennstedt's slightly vulgar live LPO 8th. And there were some VERY odd omissions - no Jochum or Celi symphony recordings at all and no mention of Sinopoli's amazing Dresden 5th

However their write-up of Zander's 5th was warm enough to tempt me. I enjoyed the performance - at times lightweight (in a good look-back-to-Schubert kind of way) but nicely controlled and in excellent Telarc sound.

It was only today that I got 'round to the "talk" disc. I don't normally like this kind of thing so I listened on the way to a client meeting in the car. It didn't offer staggering Keller-style insights but what I liked about it was just how "musical" it was -I was left extremely moved by the whole thing!

Gramo write-up here:

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/editorial/bruckners-symphony-no-5

And it's cheap new from Market Place

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bruckner-Symphony-5-Anton/dp/B001P9PX3O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355932633&sr=8-1

Has anyone else experience of this or other Zander performance + talk material?

[Barbirollians]

Most odd - seems to have been taken from most glowing reviews in the magazine . My recollection was that Richard Osborne was a massive fan of the live Jochum 5 on Tahra - a view with which I concur !!!

Harnoncourt in 9 ?

[mathias broucek]

Most odd - seems to have been taken from most glowing reviews in the magazine . My recollection was that Richard Osborne was a massive fan of the live Jochum 5 on Tahra - a view with which I concur !!!

Harnoncourt in 9 ?

The Tahra Jochum is phenomenal. It's not always easy to get hold of so may have been disqualified on those grounds. I put a duplicate copy on Market Place a while ago and it sold fast!

The Harnoncourt 9th is interesting but surely superseded by Rattle now. And why no Walter in the 9th!

[Pikaia]

I also got it recently, and I agree that it is a good recording. The "talk" disc is very helpful in understanding the symphony, it would be nice if there were more recordings of this kind. There is also a cathedral-shaped diagram of the structure of the symphony, as it has been described as "cathedral in sound" - make of that what you will.

[richardfinegold]

all zander's Mahler discs come with the talk, and I think there are some Beethoven symphonies as well. I've heard the talks for the 6th and 9th (GM). I learned a lot from both. Zander has some mannerisms that can grate with prolonged exposure so I recommend them in small doses.

[Tony Halstead]

Zander has some mannerisms that can grate with prolonged exposure

such as?

[Karafan]

The Tahra Jochum is phenomenal.

I take it, Mathias, you're referring to the live 4th Dec 1986 recording?

K.

[Petrushka]

I have that disc, which I am sure is the one to which Matthias refers, and agree that it is wonderful. The live Concertgebouw Bruckner diecs with Jochum that I have (4,5 & 8) make me wish that we had a complete cycle from this source. There is also a live 6th available on a Concertgebouw anthology set plus a Bruckner 7 on youTube given by the Concertgebouw in Japan.

I don't have the Zander recording but vividly remember RO's review.

[richardfinegold]

such as?

I actually haven't listened to a Zander talk for some time, so I'm hard pressed to remember what put me off. And what I find (mildly) irritating may not bother others at all. As I recall, there are some displays of ego that occasionally grated on me, particularly in the GM 6th Symphony talk.
On the other hand, perhaps a famous conductor who is being given a forum to discuss his views on the music at hand is entitled to a bit of ego. You have played for many conductors in your time, and perhaps Zander may even come off as a lesson in humility by comparison to some of them.

[mathias broucek]

I have that disc, which I am sure is the one to which Matthias refers, and agree that it is wonderful. The live Concertgebouw Bruckner diecs with Jochum that I have (4,5 & 8) make me wish that we had a complete cycle from this source. There is also a live 6th available on a Concertgebouw anthology set plus a Bruckner 7 on youTube given by the Concertgebouw in Japan.

Yes, the 1986 one. What an amazing performance! Apparently he encored the finale Not quite a scary as it sounds as Jochum used to use Schalk-style doubled brass for the 5th. DG should really put out his BRSO 5th on a single CD. It too is pretty wonderful and the sound is good for late 1950s.

The Tahra / RCO 4th and 6th are both good although not in the same league as the 5th. The 8th isn't nearly as good as the Dresden or (particularly) Hamburg versions.

You can get a CD or DVD of the RCO/Tokyo performance from HMV Japan. It has lovely things in it but is s-l-o-w

[Karafan]

I have quite a soft spot for Eugen's gifted brother, Georg-Ludwig, in the wartime Bruckner recordings with the Reichs-Bruckner-Orchester-Linz . Great sound too for the era.

He headed the Orchestra during WWII (the ensemble was a pet project of Hitler's and therefore benefited from the finest orchestral players drawn from all over Germany & Austria - and it shows).

Tahra brought out a splendid box of Bruckner symphonies split between him and Eugen (in 1996 - alas, nla).

He did record some Bruckner post-war, but for me his best readings are his extremely vivid wartime recordings. He recorded Nos 2, 5 and 6 during the war and they seeth and storm in a manner not unlike WF. The sound is also splendidly caught (in fact his 1944 5th symphony, recorded in the Musikvereinsaal, Vienna sounds far better - both in terms of recording and interpretation - than Karajan with the VSO in the same venue ten years later (Orfeo).

He died in 1971, several years before brother Eugen.

If you get the chance to seek him out on CD (Nos 2 & 6 are available remastered onto CD from LP by a French company) you really should.

[mathias broucek]

There's a BIS recording of Georg Ludwig him accompanying Gould in Sweden in Mozart (24) and Beethoven (2). Also worth acquiring for an outstanding Beethoven Op 110.