Carl Nielsen Symphonies

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  • soileduk
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 337

    #61
    I disagree.
    Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
    I don't know what Frosty the Snowman thinks, but the NYPO and Alan Gilbert didn't warm me up much with their account of Nielsen's 2nd.

    Broadly, whilst Gilbert glories in the climaxes he rather leaves quieter passages to look after themselves; they're very under-characterised, even anonymous. The Choleric movement is bullish rather than angry, entirely missing the essential waspish snap of the most idiomatic readings. The Phlegmatic movement rather too literally expresses its title - we look for a bucolic tipsiness here, not an evocation of rehearsal-room boredom. If I became very gloomy indeed in the midst of the following, wallowing Melancholia, it was more a case of waiting for the interminable thing to end than an emotional empathy. As Fanning put it, this "movement is distinctly lacking in flow"...

    He goes on "[Gilbert] takes almost every espressivo or tranquillo as an invitation to luxuriate [...] and the result is a near-fatal loss of momentum in many of the lyrical passages". I would add that this clearly applies to the outer movements, especially damaging in the recapitulation of (i), followed by a coda whose colic is very phlegmatic indeed!

    I listened to this as a 24/96 Flac file, which should be accurate as that is its native recorded format; but of course it's possible that the CD/SACD incarnations may differ in some respects. Having said that, I would not be impressed with the sound even on a plain vanilla CD. It's fairly smooth and clear, with a good dynamic range; but woodwind detail is rather distant, and there's a dullness (occasionally a bass-heaviness) to the sound which fails to give us much sense of the acoustic, and it comes vacuum-packed - all atmosphere (what little there is) taken out between the movements, and a rapid silence after the final climax and reverberation.

    And, as you'll gather, no applause from me.

    Comment

    • Alison
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 6455

      #62
      Originally posted by soileduk View Post
      I disagree.
      You could show your working.

      Comment

      • soileduk
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 337

        #63
        I'm sorry, I don't understand.
        Originally posted by Alison View Post
        You could show your working.

        Comment

        • Nick Armstrong
          Host
          • Nov 2010
          • 26523

          #64
          Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
          The gripes of Roth
          Perfection, fhg

          I have the original Blomstedt series, bought as it came out in the late 80s / early 90s, and find the performances and recordings an absolute knock-out. The first movement of No 3 is one of the ultimate orchestral demonstration tracks for me (along with the same forces' reading of the March from Hindemith's 'Symphonic Metamorphosis'). They've long exemplified what I look for in orchestral recordings (and that was the case on the equipment I had back then, and after my upgrade to Naim in 2000 - always through the same Cabasse speakers.). Electrifying.

          I also have 3 & 5 by Bernstein/NYPO in that odd 'Royal Edition' with pictures by Prince Charles - and in that series I also have the Mahler 7 referred to above. Could someone summarise the above debate and advise me whether that 'Royal' edition is dodgy relative to other manifestations of those performances, and hence whether I need to junk either and if so which are the preferable remix/remasterings of the Bernstein Nielsens and Mahlers ? Thanks!
          "...the isle is full of noises,
          Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
          Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
          Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

          Comment

          • Nick Armstrong
            Host
            • Nov 2010
            • 26523

            #65
            Originally posted by soileduk View Post
            白目
            Could you (or Bryn who seems to get this!) explain please?
            "...the isle is full of noises,
            Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
            Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
            Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

            Comment

            • teamsaint
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 25195

              #66
              Originally posted by Caliban View Post
              Could you (or Bryn who seems to get this!) explain please?
              I don't know what they are, but you can get them in IKEA.
              I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

              I am not a number, I am a free man.

              Comment

              • soileduk
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 337

                #67
                Originally posted by Caliban View Post
                Could you (or Bryn who seems to get this!) explain please?
                Bryn could possibly explain better than I but the translation is white eye.

                Comment

                • Bryn
                  Banned
                  • Mar 2007
                  • 24688

                  #68
                  Originally posted by Caliban View Post
                  Could you (or Bryn who seems to get this!) explain please?
                  It's the Chinese (or rather Taiwanese slang) expression "white eyes". Just Google "白目" and opt for translation. That's what I did. Very apposite, I thought. I can just about count to ten in Mandarin, but that is the effective extent of my grasp of Chinese language.

                  Comment

                  • Nick Armstrong
                    Host
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 26523

                    #69
                    Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                    Just Google "白目". That's what I did. Very apposite, I thought.
                    Cheers Bryn....



                    "...the isle is full of noises,
                    Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                    Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                    Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

                    Comment

                    • soileduk
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 337

                      #70
                      Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                      It's the Chinese (or rather Taiwanese slang) expression "white eyes". Just Google "白目" and opt for translation. That's what I did. Very apposite, I thought. I can just about count to ten in Mandarin, but that is the effective extent of my grasp of Chinese language.
                      Bryn,You do realise I've been in trouble with this before with Frosty the snowman don't you. Now you lot, back on topic.
                      Last edited by soileduk; 15-12-12, 22:33. Reason: credit where credit is due

                      Comment

                      • Bryn
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 24688

                        #71
                        Caliban, see my revised message. I sort of expected folk to opt for the translate option without prompting.

                        Comment

                        • Nick Armstrong
                          Host
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 26523

                          #72
                          Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                          Caliban, see my revised message. I sort of expected folk to opt for the translate option without prompting.
                          Just pulling your chain, old fruit
                          "...the isle is full of noises,
                          Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                          Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                          Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

                          Comment

                          • soileduk
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 337

                            #73
                            May I humbly beg a return to topic.

                            Comment

                            • Thomas Roth

                              #74
                              The gripes of Roth is funny and witty. But then it went overboard with chinese symbols and IKEA.
                              Caliban, the Bernstein/Mahler NYPO have all been remixed and remastered efter the Royal Edition. His Nielsen has not been remastered.

                              Jayne, your "review" of the Gilbert/Nielsen is a disgrace and I think you will have to eat your words on subsequent listenings. Yes, the slow movement is very slow, but so was Chung - and all the better for it. Opinions differ, but when you don´t understand a composer´s language you might be better off not saying anything. I recently received a letter from a person who doesn´t like Nielsen´s third. How could I, he asked, say so many nice things bout it. All I could answer was that it is not necessarily the fault of the composer if people don´t like the music. It could be something lacking with the listener.

                              Comment

                              • Nick Armstrong
                                Host
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 26523

                                #75
                                Originally posted by soileduk View Post
                                白目
                                Nay, 荒らし

                                At the risk of being ludicrously esoteric...
                                "...the isle is full of noises,
                                Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                                Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                                Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

                                Comment

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