My First Beethoven

[cloughie]

1/8 Jochum (DG)
2 Kowitschny (Fontana)
3 Klemperer (Columbia 1955 rec)
4 Krips (WRC)
5 Ormandy (Philips Classical Favourites 10")
6 Cluytens (HMV 1956)
7 C Davis (HMV Concert Classics)
9 Otterloo (Philips Classical Favourites)

[John Shelton]

If you mean Brüggen's new SACD set on Glossa I would sample before buying - reviews I have seen imply it is rather dull.

I have such an admiration for Brüggen I'll almost certainly go ahead (admiration for his work with new music in his youth as well as his HIPP work), but thanks for the suggestion . (Though the same thing was said of his second recording of the B minor Mass, and while I prefer the much earlier Philips - a classic performance of its kind, surely - dull I didn't find it).

I do have the Philips Beethoven set.

[richardfinegold]

I am not surprised at all, as with music quite often the very first performance/record of a work sticks into one's mind in a way similar to one's first love: never to be forgotten and often unconsciously the measure along with all others are laid.
By chance the music which drew me into the world of classical music (in december 1970) were Leonore III and no.2 which I heard/saw on Tele in a videoed recording by Kubelik and the Concertgebouw Orchestra (some time ago released on DVD, btw)
And: Surprise, surprise: I never have heard better performances of these works.
One's memory plays tricks with one's tastes......

Does it ever.

[richardfinegold]

First encounters:

1 & 6; RPO/Charles Groves (small LPs issued with The Great Musicians magazines (including essays written by Robert Simpson)
5, 8 & 9; BPO/Cluytens (CfP)
3; Paris Conservatoire/Monteux (DECCA)
2 & 4: PO/Klemperer
7 - a concert by the BBC Northern SO/Raymond Leppard

... all bought between the ages of 12 - 18. At University, I bought the '70s Karajan set and this, with his '60s set and Bernstein's DG cycle with the VPO, formed the way I thought of these works in my young adulthood, supplemented by individual recordings by Toscanini, Furtwangler, Morris, Bohm, Stokowski, Szell, Kleiber, Walter, Norrington and Hogwood.

Last Christmas, the love started all over again with Krivine!

I haven't heard Krivine. If you were to recommend one particular symphony in his cycle to sample, which would it be?
I also wasn't aware that there was another Monteux Eroica. I have his LSO and Concertgebouw recordings, both of which are in stereo and made during Monteux's last few yeas.
Cluytens wasn't available on this side of the pond until very recently. I have always treasured his recording of the Violin Concerto that he made with Oistrakh, and wondered why I had never seen any other Beethoven from him.

[richardfinegold]

My first LvB was the Cfp LP of 5 and 8 with the BPO/Cluytens and played to extinction on my parents mid-fifties Fergusson radiogram/record player. The stylus arm wasn't lightweight or balanced so after a time the record got quite worn down! Although the tone was quite good...

my parents had a cheapie little stereo from K-Mart. I think the cartridge tracked at 25 pounds. After my father died and my mother moved to smaller quarters i was inspecting some of the lps that i referenced earlier and they look like someone took a jackhammer to them.

[Thropplenoggin]

I have such an admiration for Brüggen I'll almost certainly go ahead (admiration for his work with new music in his youth as well as his HIPP work), but thanks for the suggestion . (Though the same thing was said of his second recording of the B minor Mass, and while I prefer the much earlier Philips - a classic performance of its kind, surely - dull I didn't find it).

I do have the Philips Beethoven set.

This was reviewed on CD Review last week. They also commented on the sound but said the ears can adjust to it. Perhaps you should listen again to the programme to hear what they made of the performances.

[Thropplenoggin]

I haven't heard Krivine. If you were to recommend one particular symphony in his cycle to sample, which would it be?

I gave this a whirl on Qobus (a French music-streaming site) after reading lots of praise for it on here. I'd give 5 and 6 a whirl. This'll give you a chance to hear if the sound of the gut strings is for you, and the style of the recording, too (which I found rather 'spacious' between instruments at times, as though they orchestra weren't moving as one.)

I didn't care for the 5th for quite liked the 6th.

[Dave2002]

I'm trying to figure out what LvB recordings I had or heard first. There may be some gaps, because some of the LPs were dad's, and they have now been sadly lost.

As far as I can remember it went something like:

7 - Konwitschny (I think one of my frinds had Toscanini)
4 and 5 Walter
6 Groves- 10 inch LP
9 Schmidt- Isserstedt, though one of my friends had a Klemperer mono version wich I heard at a relatively early age and another had Ansermet's, which I liked. Actually it was their dads who had the LPs, but we listened to them.

I don't know how I got on to 1,2,3 and 8. I knew these works fairly well, probably beacause I listed to so many radio concert broadcasts, so I can't think that particular LPs shaped my listening of those.

I have a hunch that the Eroica LP we had was on Supraphon - perhaps von Matacic. If so, it'd be good to hear that again
Somewhat later I acquired some cheap LPs of Kletzki on CFP, which filled in gaps in my collection, then I went back and bought some of the Cluytens set - especially for number 6, but by then I think many had started to become relatively cheap.
I suspect that I also had Koussevitsky on LP in the Eroica - really good on RCA
A little later I became keen on several other versions of the Eroica - Bernstein and Barbirolli - different, but I enjoyed them both.

An inherited LP was Krips in 3 IIRC, very good. Some of my memories are a bit hazy, but the LPs are mostly still around so can be checked - also see mention of Erich Kleiber below.

In the CD era I obtained Walter's set, and found 1 and 2 well done there, and also Szell's. Re Szell I managed to get the CBS/Sony CDs, but also the Amsterdam 5 coupled with Sibelius - which is superb. I sampled several versions of 9, and eventually settlled on one of Karajan's as being my top, though I still like Schmidt Isserstedt and Ansermet. I did get Carlos Kleiber in 5 and 7 (didn't everyone?) - the 5th at least is good, though I wouldn't necessarily put it on first. I also investigated Erich Kleiber (on LP) - maybe even better!
Norrington's early 7 I found very different, and then Hogwood's set - really excellent in 3 and 7. Furtwangler's 9s are high up in my estimation. I even have JEG's set - and some of those performances are very good.

I keep buying new sets if they're cheap enough, and obtaining CD copies of performances I had earlier on LP. I picked up bargains, including Ashkenazy in 6 (very good). I've never "invested" in Toscanini, and indeed I didn't particularly like many of his performances/recordings - such as 7, but I recall his 8 as being very fast - some might say hard driven, but exhilarating for all that. Maybe I should revisit T's performances. In recent years CD prices have fallen so I now have rather too many sets. Some of the Naxos historical sets are very well worth investigating though, with some very enjoyable Beethoven from the likes of Weingartner and I believe even Richard Strauss. I may have to come back with a PS on this, when I've checked.

[reinerfan]

My first LP, which I bought to accompany a new record player bought with my first student grant in 1958, was an Ace of Clubs of Beethoven's 5th. with, I think, the Paris Conservatoire conducted by Carl Schuricht. Another Ace of Clubs of the Pastoral followed, and then some Toscanini discs, which have influenced my approach to Beethoven to this day. I also remember joining Classics Club and receiving their 10" records which often had anonymous orchestras, conductors and soloists. One of these was an excellent performance of Beethoven's 4th. Symphony with the Bournemouth S.O. conducted by Charles Groves. My first complete set was the early 60's Karajan/Berlin P.O. on DGG and, despite now owning 35 complete cycles as well as dozens of individual discs, I still get the most pleasure out of that version. I admire the attempt at authenticity from some recent versions, but fail to get much enjoyment from them. Give me Toscanini, Karajan,Scherchen, etc. any time.

[Tony Halstead]

#23:

I have a hunch that the Eroica LP we had was on Supraphon - perhaps von Matacic. If so, it'd be good to hear that again

Yes indeed, it's a fantastic performance! I too first heard it on LP and now I have it on s Supraphon 'Archiv' CD.

I even have JEG's set

[Barbirollians]

My first LP, which I bought to accompany a new record player bought with my first student grant in 1958, was an Ace of Clubs of Beethoven's 5th. with, I think, the Paris Conservatoire conducted by Carl Schuricht. Another Ace of Clubs of the Pastoral followed, and then some Toscanini discs, which have influenced my approach to Beethoven to this day. I also remember joining Classics Club and receiving their 10" records which often had anonymous orchestras, conductors and soloists. One of these was an excellent performance of Beethoven's 4th. Symphony with the Bournemouth S.O. conducted by Charles Groves. My first complete set was the early 60's Karajan/Berlin P.O. on DGG and, despite now owning 35 complete cycles as well as dozens of individual discs, I still get the most pleasure out of that version. I admire the attempt at authenticity from some recent versions, but fail to get much enjoyment from them. Give me Toscanini, Karajan,Scherchen, etc. any time.

That Ace of Clubs pastoral is the Erich Kleiber I think .

[Bryn]

I have such an admiration for Brüggen I'll almost certainly go ahead (admiration for his work with new music in his youth as well as his HIPP work), but thanks for the suggestion . (Though the same thing was said of his second recording of the B minor Mass, and while I prefer the much earlier Philips - a classic performance of its kind, surely - dull I didn't find it).

I do have the Philips Beethoven set.

Some have found the generally slower tempi a problem, and then there is the recording acoustic, that too has been commented on in negative terms. I think the latter may be conditioned by too much familiarity with studio acoustics on the part of the listener. The former certainly go against the trend but to me the captivating musicality of the performances is what makes the set worth every one of the considerable number of pennies (compared to current best offers) I paid for it.

I seem to recall that Jayne might be getting the set. I look forward to her analytical comments if so.

[By the way, there is a couple of sample tracks available to listen to at http://www.glossamusic.com/glossa/reference.aspx?id=297 (scroll down to the bottom of the page linked to).]

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I haven't heard Krivine. If you were to recommend one particular symphony in his cycle to sample, which would it be?

Tricky: the cycle is very much a cycle rather than a collection of individual performances (if that makes any sense!) - I'd probably suggest the Eroica as best representing Krivine's readings of these masterworks: without losing any of the apocalyptic vision of traditional performances, these Musicians find a dancing joyousness as well, which I'd never heard before. Very much Beethoven as the heir to Haydn, but also aware of his impact on Wagner. Thropple has said elsewhere that finds the recorded sound distracting; I relistened to the 5th after he reported this with a view to paying strict attention to the recorded sound - and I can only say that, after about a couple of minutes, I was so captivated by the performances that I stopped listening out for recording flaws! ("Sounds to me as if heard from inside the orchestra, rather than a seat in a concert hall" was about as far as I got!)

The Ninth is also good in these respects - to call it "lighter" than traditional readings is misleading (the power of the Music is all there, it isn't trivialized as "lighter" might suggest) but I can't think of an alternative. Absolutely an "Ode to Joy" throughout: coming at the end of the cycle, it had me in tears of joy and gratitude, soppy old fool though I be!

[aeolium]

My first experiences of Beethoven were from various cheap LPs belonging to my elder brother, symphonies 5 & 8 with Pittsburgh SO and Steinberg, Emperor piano concerto (can't recall performers - that was the wonderful time when all the music was new and the performers unimportant!), violin concerto with Ricci and the 4th piano concerto with IIRC Haskil playing. I think the violin concerto had the greatest impact on me then. Only quite a few years later did the question of who was performing become any kind of consideration - for one thing records were so expensive then!

[verismissimo]

My only "first" that I still play regularly is the 7th - Monteux with the LSO FROM 1963.