Barbirolli - favourite recordings

[akiralx]

I see there is a recording of the Franck Symphony with the Czech PO which I have never heard.

I recall from Kennedy's biography that JB treasured a concert with them in which he conducted Mahler 1.

[Barbirollians]

I had not listened to the BBC Legends Barbirolli Elgar 1 for a while - it is immensely moving and with a great sweep - it and the Boult 1976 Proms recordings are very special documents.

[Beef Oven]

This is one of my favourite Barbirolli CDs. It is rare for more than a month to go by without me playing either work.




I have a soft spot for Barbirolli, especially since I got to know Mahler 9 (and 5) through his recording.

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[gradus]

Re the Heldenleben recording I think it was the last EMI issued performance of JB's but not the final recording see BBC above. Interestingly and unusually the sleevenote (by Michael Williams) of ASD 2613 traces the recorded history of the work through the (at that time) three versions that HMV had recorded, two by Beecham and one by Mengelberg, also pointing out that JB was born in the year of the work's premier - !899.
Apparently, two RFH performances in 1969 flanked the recording and in the description of the piece the sleevenote records JB's view concerning the Don Juan quotation 'All good Don Juans take their time', whereas the sleevenote says that Sir Thomas 'hurls the quotation across the canvas with haughty disdain and then moves to the end with ever growing passion and involvement', whereas Mengelberg and JB find ' a sweeter serenity, intimate, reflective.'
This short tribute also appeared on the the sleeve:
'29th July 1970. Since the above was written, Sir John Barbirolli has passed into the sunset; now life is fulfilled for the Hero of this recording. The heartfelt thanks of all those associated with the making of this record go with him on his new journey.

[silvestrione]

This is one of my favourite Barbirolli CDs. It is rare for more than a month to go by without me playing either work.




I have a soft spot for Barbirolli, especially since I got to know Mahler 9 (and 5) through his recording.

.

Yes, you remind me that I got to know Mahler 9 through JB/BPO, too. And there's one of those special moments, in the cadenza-like passage towards the end of the first movement...wonderful. How does he do it?

[BBMmk2]

Must buy that recording of Ein Heldelben. At the mkoment I am going through the Sibelius Edition and have Symphgopnies nos 1 & 4 on now.

[Beef Oven]

Yes, you remind me that I got to know Mahler 9 through JB/BPO, too. And there's one of those special moments, in the cadenza-like passage towards the end of the first movement...wonderful. How does he do it?

The cover a very special recording for me......



How does he do it? This is indeed the key question about JB's art in general.

For me, it comes from the heart not the head. I can't put it into words!

This thread has caused me to look through my my music collection and I am surprised at how many JB recordings I own. The only one I have struggled with down the years is his 1970 RFH Bruckner 8 which for me, doesn't cut it. To be fair, he may have been quite ill at the time and in this work he is up against the very best of the very best.

I think Hurwitz is right when he says JB's best lies outside this particular recording http://www.classicstoday.com/review/...6482/?search=1

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

For me, it comes from the heart not the head. I can't put it into words!

Ouch! "Not" is a bit extreme, I think, BeefO: JB had a superb brain that could take in details of the scores, assimilate their multifarious details, and calculate (in the best sense) where the "weight" of each moment would best be placed. I don't think we should take his frequent public statements about how he loved the emotional side of the works he conducted as indication of a hostility to the intellectual side of performance: in rehearsal and performance, he was like a surgeon, breathing the LIFE back into the inert corpse of the score - making sure that the orchestra knew exactly their part in the resussitation. No one with an exclusively "emotive" method of working could have got the astonishing results he did: the Musicians would've just laughed at him!


The recording of his that I have most difficulty with is the Mahler #6 you cite as one of your favourites: just too slow for me, that First Movement. Sorry.


(No, I mean "I'm genuinely sorry - and envious - that I don't get as much out of it as you do. I feel sure it must be me missing the point this superb Musician has discovered in the work.")

[Nimrod]

What an interesting lsit of responses to the original thread, started late last year! I guess there are not many of us left who had the priveledge of seeing JB live? I went to about 8 or 9 concerts including his last two in Kings Lynn. The Elgar 1 was awesome and the following day, after the BBC had left (!?) we were treated to Hebrides, Mother Goose, Romeo and Juilet and a heavenly Beethoven 7th, the slow movement of which moved me to tears. What a programme, and he missed the rehearsal feeling too ill. He looked drained as he walked away from his public for what was to be the last time. Mahler 6th...if you don't like the NPO on EMI, join the audience in Berlin on Testament, as a reviewer once said, 'thrill and spills' but WHAT a performance! What I find so endearing about JB is his ability to interpret so many different composers with so much conviction and enthusiasm, born no doubt of decades of studying scores into the small hours. I suggest there may only be a handful of other conductors who have ever graced the podium with such a comphrensive grasp of so many different musical styles. Oh, and I must not forget that he was a very humble person, certainly on the occasions that I met him backstage after concerts.
Nimrod

[Barbirollians]

What an interesting lsit of responses to the original thread, started late last year! I guess there are not many of us left who had the priveledge of seeing JB live? I went to about 8 or 9 concerts including his last two in Kings Lynn. The Elgar 1 was awesome and the following day, after the BBC had left (!?) we were treated to Hebrides, Mother Goose, Romeo and Juilet and a heavenly Beethoven 7th, the slow movement of which moved me to tears. What a programme, and he missed the rehearsal feeling too ill. He looked drained as he walked away from his public for what was to be the last time. Mahler 6th...if you don't like the NPO on EMI, join the audience in Berlin on Testament, as a reviewer once said, 'thrill and spills' but WHAT a performance! What I find so endearing about JB is his ability to interpret so many different composers with so much conviction and enthusiasm, born no doubt of decades of studying scores into the small hours. I suggest there may only be a handful of other conductors who have ever graced the podium with such a comphrensive grasp of so many different musical styles. Oh, and I must not forget that he was a very humble person, certainly on the occasions that I met him backstage after concerts.
Nimrod

Thanks so much for posting this Nimrod - what a shame the BBC did not stay for his final concert .

As for that Mahler 6 FHGL I recall RO on Interpretations on REcord saying that having either Barbirolli and Bernstein as your first recording must make it hard to listen to others Barbirolli- slow and Bernstein fast .

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

As for that Mahler 6 FHGL I recall RO on Interpretations on REcord saying that having either Barbirolli and Bernstein as your first recording must make it hard to listen to others Barbirolli- slow and Bernstein fast .

- and guess whose recording I learnt the work from?

Wise owl, that RO!


Nimrod: thank you for the nudge towards the BPO Live recording - another one for "The List"!

[johnb]

Mahler 6th...if you don't like the NPO on EMI, join the audience in Berlin on Testament, as a reviewer once said, 'thrill and spills' but WHAT a performance!

I've been intending to get that recording ever since hearing it broadcast on the old CD Masters programme. I was very, very impressed with the performance even though it was mono. It certainly didn't seem to be excessively slow, as some the studio recording recordings that Barbirolli made in later life can be IMO.

[Bryn]

I've been intending to get that recording ever since hearing it broadcast on the old CD Masters programme. I was very, very impressed with the performance even though it was mono. It certainly didn't seem to be excessively slow, as some the studio recording recordings that Barbirolli made in later life can be IMO.

I have both the studio and a live 6th with the NPO. The latter is shown as having been recorded on 22nd January 1969 in London. The duration is 73' 35". It's on one of those somewhat suspect Italian ARKADIA CDs, CDGI 726.1 I thought I also had the Berlin performance, but cannot find it.

[Beef Oven]

Ouch! "Not" is a bit extreme, I think, BeefO: JB had a superb brain that could take in details of the scores, assimilate their multifarious details, and calculate (in the best sense) where the "weight" of each moment would best be placed. I don't think we should take his frequent public statements about how he loved the emotional side of the works he conducted as indication of a hostility to the intellectual side of performance: in rehearsal and performance, he was like a surgeon, breathing the LIFE back into the inert corpse of the score - making sure that the orchestra knew exactly their part in the resussitation. No one with an exclusively "emotive" method of working could have got the astonishing results he did: the Musicians would've just laughed at him!


The recording of his that I have most difficulty with is the Mahler #6 you cite as one of your favourites: just too slow for me, that First Movement. Sorry.


(No, I mean "I'm genuinely sorry - and envious - that I don't get as much out of it as you do. I feel sure it must be me missing the point this superb Musician has discovered in the work.")

I said I couldn't put it into words!!!

What I meant was, taking for granted that JB is as 'intellectual' and technically competent as the next conductor of this calibre, I find there is something intangible that makes me love his performances - hence the from the heart reference.

Btw, I had absolutely no idea about JB's frequent statements about loving the emotional side of works.

On the matter of Symphony #6, I need to explain. I learnt that work with Szell's 1960s Clevelend recording and later HvK's BPO. I went on to acquire a silly number of other recordings and I regularly spin them. I was at a lightning fast Gergiev performance when he performed the whole cycle in London.

JB is very slow indeed, and the first movement almost stops, but I love it!! It's my indulgence! I allow myself this pleasure often; just like I often sit down with a decent bottle of red and luxuriate through an almost never-ending Celibidache Bruckner 8!!

[johnb]

I hadn't heard of the Arkadia label but the Barbirolli/NPO live Mahler 6 is also available on Testament. It's interesting that the NPO live recording is significantly quicker, even though the RAH performance was just the evening before the studio sessions commenced. Perhaps the difference is just due to the inspiration of a live performance.

After doing some rummaging round (at home and on line) I've come up with these timings (which might or might not be exactly right):

        NPO Studio     NPO Live      BPO Live
        EMI           Testament     Testament
I.      21' 23"        19' 04"        18' 48"
II.     16' 02"        14' 00"        14' 24"
III.    13' 56"        12' 08"        12' 26"
IV.     32' 45"        29' 33"        29' 04"

Total   84' 06"        74' 45"        74" 42'