Beethoven's 8th: What's it all about?

[french frank]

I'm really beginning to tire of this forum. The above responses are about as useful as a fart in a spacesuit.

I'm not looking for meaning. I don't see how it fits into his ontogeny as a composer. It seems slightly aberrant, light, throwaway. I can't fathom the music's argument.

My attention has been drawn to the fact that the thread is more than a little off topic and Mr Thropplenoggin may depart again in a huff if due consideration is not given to his enquiry.

(Beethoven's 8th)

[Thropplenoggin]

My attention has been drawn to the fact that the thread is more than a little off topic and Mr Thropplenoggin may depart again in a huff if due consideration is not given to his enquiry.

(Beethoven's 8th)

A bit harsh, surely, from a moderator.

[teamsaint]

What 2 days?

2 days without 'noggin seems almost endless.......

[teamsaint]

A bit harsh, surely, from a moderator.

mods are closely related to sales directors, genetically speaking.

Edit: In case of doubt , this is a good thing.

[Nick Armstrong]

My attention has been drawn to the fact that the thread is more than a little off topic and Mr Thropplenoggin may depart again in a huff if due consideration is not given to his enquiry.
(Beethoven's 8th)

... obviously not much bloodshed on the political threads this afternoon, time to police the quieter precincts and engage in a little tangent-tweaking, ff...?

No harm done surely, we're just pleased to see Throppers back, have a bit of a chat.

Since I chucked in a diversionary post, here we go (to get us back on the straight and narrow, officer ): I was interested to read this alleged exchange between Beethoven and his pupil Carl Czerny:

CC: "Why is the Eighth less popular than the Seventh?"
LvB: "Because the Eighth is so much better..."

Discuss...

[cloughie]

A bit harsh, surely, from a moderator.

Thropple don't argue she's on your side! On the other hand where would these boards be without a little digression from the subject?

[Bryn]

... obviously not much bloodshed on the political threads this afternoon, time to police the quieter precincts and engage in a little tangent-tweaking, ff...?

No harm done surely, we're just pleased to see Throppers back, have a bit of a chat.

Since I chucked in a diversionary post, here we go (to get us back on the straight and narrow, officer): I was interested to read this alleged exchange between Beethoven and his pupil Carl Czerny:

CC: "Why is the Eighth less popular than the Seventh?"
LvB: "Because the Eighth is so much better..."

Discuss...

LvB waz 'avin a larf, innit?

[Flosshilde]

a little digression from the subject?

A little?!!


Actually, I'd assumed that the somewhat effusive welcomings back were, how shall I put it?, a little ironic, perhaps?

[french frank]

A bit harsh, surely, from a moderator.

Not at all. I was merely responding - as I am bound to - to a complaint.

If you have no concerns, neither have I

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Allegretto scherzando implies a nippy speed, but quaver=88 is quite measured. With a predominance of short duration notes throughout, however, this is far from being a slow movement. the more stately Tempo di Menuetto might be said to fulfil that function.
A remarkably original work.

[richardfinegold]

Welcome back!

Seconded!

[verismissimo]

I was listening to this in the car today (Konwitzchny) and I just don't get it.

I took another listen to the Konwitschny and I don't think that's the problem. I think it's Beethoven doing a sharp and angular U-turn to Haydn.

[Roslynmuse]

Many years ago Anthony Hopkins did a 'Talking About Music' programme re Beethoven 8. What I remember most was his description of the 2nd mt not as a tribute to the metronome but as frustration with an alarm clock - the final phrases representing increasing frustration with the malfunctioning instrument and it being dashed to pieces against the nearest wall! Normal service resumed in mt 3...

[Roehre]

I was listening to this in the car today (Konwitzchny) and I just don't get it.(....)

The 8's opening movement has some dark moments in it but the overall feeling is light, skittish. I just don't get it. Perhaps I need to hear a different version?

All explanations and suggestions gratefully received.

B himself was not exactly sure what the work would be (about) either.
Ever asked yourself why the key of 8 is F, as this is the only key B used twice in his 9 completed symphonies?
The 8th started to be sketched as a piano concerto - and within these concertos we don't have one in F.

The 8th is the only symphony without a real slow mvt (and in that sense similar to opus 18/4).
But the metronome-mvt (Ta ta ta lieber Mälzel WoO 162 - possibly a forgery by Schindler, but that's another and rather complicated story) was definitely not conceived as such from the beginning. It was nearly an afterthought - it emerges after aprroximately one and a half pages of sketches for this mvt (and therefore the sketches are debunking the story that the mvt is based on forementioned Canon WoO 162)

Ever looked at the orchestration?
The trumpets are in F. At that time these were military instruments, hardly -if ever- used in "non-military" music.
B was mocked for this. IMO this is an "influence" of his use of brass in Wellington's Victory (which btw is called a Symphony as well !)

It has been mentioned already, but the 8th is despite its Mozartian/Haydnesque size and point of departure a forward looking work: the melody for the horns in the trio of the scherzo an example. It is not by chance Stravinsky -not the most outspoken Beethoven admirer to use an understatement- loved this, and pointed at it in Jeu de Cartes.

After B moved from pianoconcerto to symphony, he decided to write a trilogy of symphonies, another work was planned, most likely in d-minor, but that 9th might have been in b-minor as well. Unfortunately nothing came of this.

All these things can contribute to feeling a little bit unsettled, listening to this work.

[doversoul1]

Ah, welcome back Roehre. You have been very much missed.