Beethoven's 8th: What's it all about?

[Bryn]

Looks like he ain't comin' back!

Who?

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

It's a cheerful romp composed by a happy Ludwig who had just been given a gift by his friend Maelzel of a Metronome, which could convey both audible and visual indication of the correct speed to specify Allegro, Andante,Adagio, Lento and their variants.

An excellent point, Hornspieler and I'm sure I can't be the only one to hear the metronome's ticking in the staccato woodwind semiquavers in the Allegretto scherzando second movement.

It took me a long time to appreciate the Eighth. Schumann characterized the Fourth as 'a slender Greek maiden between two Norse gods' and I think the Eighth has suffered, possibly too strong a word, for coming between the magnificent Seventh (often my favourite of Beethoven's nine) and the mighty Choral. Seeing it performed by the London Mozart Players changed all that - the tremendous joy and humour in the symphony was infectious and I adore the timpani volley in the closing bars, which looks enormous fun to play.

I've been listening to Beethoven's symphonies much in recent days and returning to the Eighth is always a joy.

[amateur51]

Eugene Ormandy and the VPO in 1963 - some lovely shots of the hornplayers & woodwind, lovely playing too, Ormandy very keen on contrasts. I'd never realised what a 'whirler' Ormandy was

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5QcdJ5CVEI

[Nick Armstrong]

Priceless!! I've never seen him conduct before! Thanks!

Ormamandy

... but do you know something we don't??

[Petrushka]

Can someone confirm that the end of the first movement of the Beethoven 8 contains the only fff marking in his entire output? I'm sure I read that somewhere.

I'm very fond of the 8th anyway but can only recall three hearings in the concert hall in 40 years of concert-going: Chicago SO/Solti, LPO/Haitink and WEDO/Barenboim.

[jayne lee wilson]

So, farewell, to Throstles...

"Something that sings and dances, that rejoices in its very existence" ...someone defined "The Classical" that way, seems apt about No.8...

If No.7 was The Apotheosis of The Dance, the 8th is the Apotheosis of Rhythm. With an intermezzo to give us a break. Or just a holiday from all those grand symphonic statements. Not a musical joke but a game. Before the last, LvB-definitive symphonic statement.

Favourites? Scherchen is No.1!
...and then Norrington/Stuttgart, Zinman, Rattle/VPO, Szell, Bruggen in 1989...

HD is right about business! Fun to be here after days "Under Pressure" (Queen/David Bowie round and round in my head...)

[Sir Velo]

Looks like he ain't comin' back!

Gone to the pub more like.

[Flay]

Eugene Ormandy and the VPO in 1963 - some lovely shots of the hornplayers & woodwind, lovely playing too, Ormamandy very keen on contrasts. I'd never realised what a 'whirler' Ormandy was

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5QcdJ5CVEI

Double woodwind in that performance!

Like Caliban's #29 I also think that the creation of the 8th bears similarities to that of Shosty's 9th. Both could be seen as a retort to others' high expectations: for Ludwig it was to top the 7th, and for Dmitri it was to achieve the greatness of preceeding 9th symphonies. In both cases they seem to be saying: let's have some fun instead!

But neither work is trivial.

[cloughie]

So, farewell, to Throstles...

"Something that sings and dances, that rejoices in its very existence" ...someone defined "The Classical" that way, seems apt about No.8...

If No.7 was The Apotheosis of The Dance, the 8th is the Apotheosis of Rhythm. With an intermezzo to give us a break. Or just a holiday from all those grand symphonic statements. Not a musical joke but a game. Before the last, LvB-definitive symphonic statement.

Favourites? Scherchen is No.1!
...and then Norrington/Stuttgart, Zinman, Rattle/VPO, Szell, Bruggen in 1989...

HD is right about business! Fun to be here after days "Under Pressure" (Queen/David Bowie round and round in my head...)

Beecham, Jochum(DG), Abbado(Decca - now Eloquence), but then there are endless good others.

HD?

[Bryn]

HD?

HighlandDougie.

[Flay]

Can someone confirm that the end of the first movement of the Beethoven 8 contains the only fff marking in his entire output? I'm sure I read that somewhere.

I'm very fond of the 8th anyway but can only recall three hearings in the concert hall in 40 years of concert-going: Chicago SO/Solti, LPO/Haitink and WEDO/Barenboim.

It certainly has fff towards the end: http://javanese.imslp.info/files/img...No.8_Mov.1.pdf

But I could not say if he ever used fff elsewhere

[cloughie]

HighlandDougie.

Thanks Bryn.

[Flay]

But I could not say if he ever used fff elsewhere

Looking again, he first used it in the finale of the 7th (bar 438): http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/...vmt4-ccarh.pdf

So the answer is that he did use it in other compositions.

[Flay]

And fff in Leonora Overture No. 3, Op. 72 - page 62 on this: http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/...._3_Op._72.pdf

I must get out more...

[Flay]

And the final chord in this publication of the Pathétique: http://erato.uvt.nl/files/imglnks/us...ull_Score_.pdf

But not in all the other publications on imslp, which makes me wonder if there is an editorial hand involved here.