Beethoven's 8th: What's it all about?

[Thropplenoggin]

[COLOR="#0000FF"]It was you who introduced the concept (a wee bit brutally I thought, particularly given the angelic salymap's willingness to comment on the enquiry).

Btw it's Fart In A Spacesuit...

But her comment comes long after I used the expression. It was directed at the first two responses. "The above responses are about as useful as a fart in a spacesuit."

[Nick Armstrong]

Teamsaint - I recommend Boult or Walter Columbia in Brahms 2 if you need to fall for it .

Interesting - I must hear the Boult. I loved the Walter which I own but I must say the Jurowski has overtaken it in my affections. Interestingly, the 'blind tasting' French critics' programme considered this work a while ago and the Jurowski mopped the floor with all-comers inc. Walter. They were beside themselves with surprise...

[Nick Armstrong]

But her comment comes long after I used the expression. It was directed at the first two responses. "The above responses are about as useful as a fart in a spacesuit."

salymaps's is message #2, your FAIS post is #4...

[Pabmusic]

Teamsaint - I recommend Boult or Walter Columbia in Brahms 2 if you need to fall for it .

Yes, seconded. (I'm obviously having an 'agree with Barbirollians' phase.)

Both conductors manage to allow the music to flow from the first bar, not the second - it's an important point - and they also pick a tempo from the beginning that allows the second subject to enter just right.

[Bryn]

same as my link?

Hence "there" rather than "here".

[Barbirollians]

Interesting - I must hear the Boult. I loved the Walter which I own but I must say the Jurowski has overtaken it in my affections. Interestingly, the 'blind tasting' French critics' programme considered this work a while ago and the Jurowski mopped the floor with all-comers inc. Walter. They were beside themselves with surprise...

Tempting but I just have too many Brahms symphony cycles already - Abbado, Alsop, Boult, Klemperer, Furtwangler, Toscanini ,Sawallisch/VSO, Barbirolli, both Walter sets, Norrington in 1, Kleiber in 4 etc etc.

[Thropplenoggin]

salymaps's is message #2, your FAIS post is #4...

My sincerest apologies to salymap for any offence caused. I had not spotted it was her who had responded.

I shall now withdraw from this forum, unloved and in disgrace, as is the Thropplenoggin way.

[HighlandDougie]

And then there's Celibidache's Brahms 2nd in Munich....

But, back to Beethoven. The Konwitschny, to which I've just listened, would not be my ideal introduction to the 8th - it's all rather dour and humourless. It's not so much a matter of tempo but rather that he approaches it almost as if it's something to be got through between the 7th (in which Konwitschny excels) and the 9th. A bit like having to eat all your vegetables before being allowed pudding. This, "light-hearted but not lightweight", symphony never really sings in his hands - and I didn't feel any of the joy which I'm used to in the final movement. It is a bit of a conundrum (as Caliban says, like the DSCH 9th) but, treated as no less of a masterpiece than the two 'big' symphonies on either side and played accordingly (Karajan, Cluytens, Abbado, Krivine etc etc), the humour and wit which underlie it can make it a really exhilirating experience, especially heard live.

[salymap]

My sincerest apologies to salymap for any offence caused. I had not spotted it was her who had responded.

I shall now withdraw from this forum, unloved and in disgrace, as is the Thropplenoggin way.

The angelic one will give you another chance if you give Ludwig's most relaxed symphony the same.

[ostuni]

Beethoven 8 is fine, good genial stuff. It's quite a surprise after the previous ones and just before the 9th (In a way it's always made me think of Shostakovich coming up with his funny 9th after the wartime 7th & 8th and before the epic 10th.)I suppose these chaps needed to relax sometimes.

Nice analogy! And thanks for the Jurowski Brahms rec: just ordered a 2ndhand copy from Am.

[Richard Tarleton]

Hence "there" rather than "here".

Ah!

And don't go, Thropplenoggin. We have plenty to think about. I shall listen to 8 with fresh ears.

[Nick Armstrong]

I shall now withdraw from this forum, unloved and in disgrace, as is the Thropplenoggin way.

You mustn't!! There's much to contribute! You've triggered a most interesting debate!

[HighlandDougie]

My sincerest apologies to salymap for any offence caused. I had not spotted it was her who had responded.

I shall now withdraw from this forum, unloved and in disgrace, as is the Thropplenoggin way.

Exhortations to stay thirded, fourthed, fifthed etc.

Your thoughtful post has given me much pleasure this morning, especially by distracting me from the very dreary work on which I'm supposed to be engaged (I know that they're important but the person who invented "business plans" ought to have been strangled at birth).

[verismissimo]

For me it's a distillation of all that came before (and after). Much, much tighter. One thing goes on to the next without pause or ceremony.
Took me ages to "get" it, Thropple.

[Serial_Apologist]

Beethoven's 8th is a wonderful piece, with a starting point in Haydn and a finishing point way beyond.

Sums the 8th up nicely: as in the case of the 5th a link between Haydn and Sibeliuses 3-7 in terms of detailed concentration and foreshortening of transitions, as the 3rd, 7th and 9th foreshadow Bruckner, Mahler, Brian and Shostakovitch, with Brahms somewhere midway between. Not that Beethoven would have intended it that way of course, though his concern with expansion, on the one hand, and compression on the other, presented two creative sides to his personality, both of which have offered later composers so much to think about in terms of which way to go.

Don't go, Thropplegin - if it helps, I'm in one of those funny moods myself today, just shouted uncharacteristically down the line to a persistent cold-caller; it's kind of seasonal with many folks...