Beethoven's 8th: What's it all about?

[Guest]

I was listening to this in the car today (Konwitzchny) and I just don't get it.

All the other symphonies I can follow:

1 & 2 direct descendents of Haydn and Mozart but also breaking free of classicism towards Romanticism.
3 seems to represent a hero's rise and fall and rise again. Truly Romantic.
4: An unbelievably modern opening, but it still seems to fit in with what's come before
5: A raised middle finger to the Moirai
6: a tone poem to pastoralism
7: a bit schizophrenic with its cosmic grandeur opening, funeral second movement, and then two movements representing 'the apotheosis of the dance'
8: ???
9: seems to represent the cosmos in symphonic form, or man's evolution therein, crowned with an appeal to universal brotherhood.

The 8's opening movement has some dark moments in it but the overall feeling is light, skittish. I just don't get it. Perhaps I need to hear a different version?

All explanations and suggestions gratefully received.

[salymap]

One of my favourites. Why look for meanings when it sounds so right, to me anyway. My first Beethoven symphony and when in hospital away from concerts could 'sing' it through in my head silently. Perhaps a throw-back to Haydn and a relaxing time for the composer.Didn't he callitd 'my little symphony' ?

[MrGongGong]

It's music
it doesn't have to be "about" anything other than what it is.

[Thropplenoggin]

I'm really beginning to tire of this forum. The above responses are about as useful as a fart in a spacesuit.

I'm not looking for meaning. I don't see how it fits into his ontogeny as a composer. It seems slightly aberrant, light, throwaway. I can't fathom the music's argument.

[teamsaint]

Anothe FAIS offering....
we do seem to have this odd thing, and I am no different, that because we generally enjoy a composer/band/musician, that when they do something we don't like, get, whatever, that there is a problem.
Sometimes, its just not for us, or we aren't there yet, or perhaps it really isn't that great (obviously not true in this case). Why the soul searching? (don't mean that in a personal way).
There is more (great ) music out there that I will ever hear, let alone fully appreciate, so I just go and try find it.

Dunhills Violin Sonata in F is new for me today.

Perhaps one day a chance comment, a thought, a connection or something will illuminate the 8th for you.
Till then don't worry. That is my very humble opinion.
But good luck in your search for understanding.

Don't tire of the board. Ther is truly a wealth of musical knowledge and here, which is to be valued greatly.

Some saucy limericks too if you look around !

[robk]

I'm really beginning to tire of this forum. The above responses are about as useful as a fart in a spacesuit.

I'm not looking for meaning. I don't see how it fits into his ontogeny as a composer. It seems slightly aberrant, light, throwaway. I can't fathom the music's argument.

I read somewhere that the eighth was a a character portrait of the composer at a relatively carefree point in his life - idiosyncratic, humorous, lively, contradictory. Works for me. (Burnett James - Beethoven & Human Destiny)

[Thropplenoggin]

I read somewhere that the eighth was a a character portrait of the composer at a relatively carefree point in his life - idiosyncratic, humorous, lively, contradictory. Works for me. (Burnett James - Beethoven & Human Destiny)

Thank you. Now that is useful to know.

[rauschwerk]

Now, now! I have a feeling that if Beethoven had been asked what it was 'about', he might have said something like, "It never seems to occur to people that a man might just want to write a piece of music." as another great composer once said.

You would have to do an awful lot of digging to try to discover Beethoven's own poetic idea, so why not make up your own if that helps you? Oh, and get to understand the musical argument which is really what matters when all is said and done.

[Thropplenoggin]

Anothe FAIS offering....
we do seem to have this odd thing, and I am no different, that because we generally enjoy a composer/band/musician, that when they do something we don't like, get, whatever, that there is a problem.
Sometimes, its just not for us, or we aren't there yet, or perhaps it really isn't that great (obviously not true in this case). Why the soul searching? (don't mean that in a personal way).
There is more (great ) music out there that I will ever hear, let alone fully appreciate, so I just go and try find it.

Dunhills Violin Sonata in F is new for me today.

Perhaps one day a chance comment, a thought, a connection or something will illuminate the 8th for you.
Till then don't worry. That is my very humble opinion.
But good luck in your search for understanding.

Don't tire of the board. Ther is truly a wealth of musical knowledge and here, which is to be valued greatly.

Some saucy limericks too if you look around !

???

Beethoven is one of my favourite composers. I'd like to try and understand all of his works. I was simply struck this morning that I couldn't get into this one and was looking for a way in, either a recommended recording or sort of musical explanation.

[teamsaint]

I realise what you are asking.....sometimes time provides the answers is all.

I love Brahms, but the second remains something I can't really enjoy as much as I feel I ought to....life's too short.

As I said, good luck..sometimes, the harder you try, the worse things get....

Edit FAIS Fart in a spacesuit....

[Thropplenoggin]

I realise what you are asking.....sometimes time provides the answers is all.

I love Brahms, but the second remains something I can't really enjoy as much as I feel I ought to....life's too short.

As I said, good luck..sometimes, the harder you try, the worse things get....

Fair enough. Thanks.

(I'm not au fait with "FAIS".)

[Richard Tarleton]

Fair enough. Thanks.

(I'm not au fait with "FAIS".)

Me neither

Thropple, for what it's worth, probably not a lot, I've always felt slightly nonplussed by 8, after the towering heights of 7 which is my favourite (if I had to pick one). Apparently Beethoven preferred 8 to 7 which came as a surprise when I read it. I own several 7's but strangely no 8's.

[Thropplenoggin]

Me neither

Thropple, for what it's worth, probably not a lot, I've always felt slightly nonplussed by 8, after the towering heights of 7 which is my favourite (if I had to pick one). Apparently Beethoven preferred 8 to 7 which came as a surprise when I read it. I own several 7's but strangely no 8's.

It's good to know that it's not just me who finds it a struggle, especially after the 7th. I didn't know the composer felt that way about these two symphonies. If I find a recording that opens the work up to me, I'll let you know!

[subcontrabass]

Now, now! I have a feeling that if Beethoven had been asked what it was 'about', he might have said something like, "It never seems to occur to people that a man might just want to write a piece of music." as another great composer once said.

There is a story that after Beethoven had performed one of his piano sonatas someone asked him what it meant. Beethoven's response was to sit down and play the whole sonata again.

[rauschwerk]

If I find a recording that opens the work up to me, I'll let you know!

I'm guessing that Konwitschny's tempi are on the slow side, i.e. well below Beethoven's metronome markings. Plenty of conductors (not just the HIPPers) have got closer to these and it makes a lot of difference in this piece, especially in the outer movements.