Beethoven's 8th: What's it all about?

[Bryn]

In a way, I think it’s a good thing when great composers turn out lesser works. It reminds us that they were only human beings, after all. The 8th is certainly a dud an almighty blot on LvB’s copybook but if it wasn’t there, he’s somehow seem more distant, more Olympian than he does does already.

For that matter, I don’t think the Jupiter symphony is one of Mozat’s better works. It’s certainly never done much for me, though it doesn’t represent a total artistic failure as the 8th so obviously does. . . .

Just so long as you grasp that the "artistic failure" is on your part, rather than Beethoven's.

[french frank]

Nope: it’s still a dud, to my ears.

Missed that. Must go back and listen more carefully

[Bryn]

Spinning the Krivine (CD edit, rather than the later performance on YouTube). In this case, it's "all about" 24 minutes (of pure joy). How right its composer (and GBS, for what it's worth) was to hold it in such high regard, considering it to be better than his 7th.

Anthony Hopkins has been cited, earlier in this thread, re. his speculation that the second movement alluded to an alarm clock, rather than a metronome. I think Tom Service is more on target with his analysis/appraisal of the work: https://www.theguardian.com/music/to...ethoven-eighth

[gurnemanz]

Spinning the Krivine (CD edit, rather than the later performance on YouTube). In this case, it's "all about" 24 minutes (of pure joy). How right its composer (and GBS, for what it's worth) was to hold it in such high regard, considering it to be better than his 7th.

Anthony Hopkins has been cited, earlier in this thread, re. his speculation that the second movement alluded to an alarm clock, rather than a metronome. I think Tom Service is more on target with his analysis/appraisal of the work: https://www.theguardian.com/music/to...ethoven-eighth

Thanks for that nudge which led me straight to listening on Spotify. Its joie de vivre and the excitement of live concert music-making cheered me up greatly on this rather crappy day weather wise.

[Conchis]

Spinning the Krivine (CD edit, rather than the later performance on YouTube). In this case, it's "all about" 24 minutes (of pure joy). How right its composer (and GBS, for what it's worth) was to hold it in such high regard, considering it to be better than his 7th.

Anthony Hopkins has been cited, earlier in this thread, re. his speculation that the second movement alluded to an alarm clock, rather than a metronome. I think Tom Service is more on target with his analysis/appraisal of the work: https://www.theguardian.com/music/to...ethoven-eighth

As a critic, GBS was a strange, wilfully contrary beast (yes, I know: pot kettle black :)). He argued that the ‘bleak’ ending of Great Expectations was ‘undoubtedly the more optimistic’ of the two that Dickens wrote. I think his high opinion of Verdi was similarly eccentric.

I’ve always felt it significant that Beethoven 8 was the only Beethoven symphony ever to be conducted by that uninspired amateur, Edward Heath. The reasoning in offering him the piece woud seem to be, ‘it doesn’t really matter if he wrecks it, it aint worth much to begin with.’

[Bryn]

As a critic, GBS was a strange, wilfully contrary beast (yes, I know: pot kettle black :)). He argued that the ‘bleak’ ending of Great Expectations was ‘undoubtedly the more optimistic’ of the two that Dickens wrote. I think his high opinion of Verdi was similarly eccentric.

I’ve always felt it significant that Beethoven 8 was the only Beethoven symphony ever to be conducted by that uninspired amateur, Edward Heath. The reasoning in offering him the piece woud seem to be, ‘it doesn’t really matter if he wrecks it, it aint worth much to begin with.’

Ah, that must be why he also conducted Haydn's Creation (Oxford Bach Choir and Symphony Orchestra, 1982, for instance). Such an insignificant work.

[Conchis]

Ah, that must be why he also conducted Haydn's Creation (Oxford Bach Choir and Symphony Orchestra, 1982, for instance). Such an insignificant work.

Yikes! I’m glad I wasn’t in the audience for that! Who the hell let him loose on The Creation? Or did money change hands?

[Bryn]

Yikes! I’m glad I wasn’t in the audience for that! Who the hell let him loose on The Creation? Or did money change hands?

It was broadcast on BBC Oxford (local radio). It was not the most accomplished performance I have ever heard of the work, but for amateur forces was decent enough. His recording of LvB's Triple Concerto is no great guns either, but I would guess you hold that work in similar disdain to the fine, ground-breaking 8th Symphony.

[cloughie]

Yikes! I’m glad I wasn’t in the audience for that! Who the hell let him loose on The Creation? Or did money change hands?

I very much prefer Beethoven 8 to Haydn’s Creation, much more concise and well formed!

[Conchis]

It was broadcast on BBC Oxford (local radio). It was not the most accomplished performance I have ever heard of the work, but for amateur forces was decent enough. His recording of LvB's Triple Concerto is no great guns either, but I would guess you hold that work in similar disdain to the fine, ground-breaking 8th Symphony.

No, I like the T.C., though I’m aware I seem to be the minority and it’s supposed to be ‘minor Beethoven’. There’s actually not much by LvB that I can claim to dislike, the 8th Symphony apart.

Not heard Heath’s recording, though I remember the Penguin Guide had nice things to say about it. It’s a work in which the conductor tends to take a backseat, anyway.

[Bryn]

No, I like the T.C., though I’m aware I seem to be the minority and it’s supposed to be ‘minor Beethoven’. There’s actually not much by LvB that I can claim to dislike, the 8th Symphony apart.

Not heard Heath’s recording, though I remember the Penguin Guide had nice things to say about it. It’s a work in which the conductor tends to take a backseat, anyway.

To be fair, the Trio Zingara, ECO, Heath recording is rather better than the infamous Rostropovich, Oistrakh, Richter, BP, Karajan.

Re. the 8th Symphony, did not Tom Service's piece give you something meaty to chew on?

[Conchis]

To be fair, the Trio Zingara, ECO, Heath recording is rather better than the infamous Rostropovich, Oistrakh, Richter, BP, Karajan.

Re. the 8th Symphony, did not Tom Service's piece give you something meaty to chew on?

Actually, the Karajan ‘Superstar’ version was the one I got to know the work by. I had no problem with it, and didn’t realise it was generally despised until I read Richard Osborne’s Karajan biography (Peter Alward was notably contemptuous of it, feeling that the sound was inferior to the earlier EMI version conducted by Malcolm Sargent).

[Barbirollians]

I always have rather liked it too - though no doubt the fact they recorded it stopped us getting a Barenboim/Zukerman. Du Pre version which judging by their Piano Trio recordings I suspect would have been marvellous .