Road-testing Period Beethoven Symphony Cycles - Sundry Thoughts

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  • Thropplenoggin
    • Feb 2025

    Road-testing Period Beethoven Symphony Cycles - Sundry Thoughts

    I've been using Qobuz to road-test a few of the available period instrument performances (no Brüggen, alas) and thought I'd share my reactions with a view to getting the feedback of other members. I skipped the pioneering period instrument brigade (Hogwood, Gardiner and Norrington) out of personal prejudice against their "clattery" or "too lean" approach. Surely 'period performance' has evolved since then, right? And I never warmed to Harnocourt's HIP-ish compromise (but perhaps that was more Harnoncourt than his compromise!*)

    I'd like to settle on one cycle to buy. Anyway, here are my thoughts:

    1) Jos van Immerseel. I was drawn to this by the punchy timpani, what felt like 'right' tempi, and a sense of cohesion between instruments. It feels fresh and musical, not breakneck and lightweight, and seems to be in the 'heroic'/Romantic tradition of Klemperer et al, in terms of digging out emotional climaxes. My one worry is, though, the hit and miss nature between symphonies. The first movement of the 9th has real weight, but the opening of the Eroica feels far too lightweight to have any impact. It almost feels like a smaller orchestra playing!

    2) David Zinman. The other day, my wife and I watched the abomination that is the Andrew Davies 'Emma'. We had the impression of watching a show with the "fast forward" button it. Listening to the opening of Zinman's Eroica, I was struck by the same sensation. There's fast and then there's Benny Hill theme music fast.

    3) Emmanuel Krivine. There seems to be too much space between instruments, if that makes sense. A sort of lack of cohesion in orchestration or effect of the recording, I'm not sure.** And that gut-string sound has never sounded less appealing.

    4) Bruno Weil/Tafelmusik. A cycle in progress. But this sounds very good to me. Enough weight in the orchestra to have an impact when needed but light enough for new details to come out. Lovely balanced recording, great sound. The Eroica has recently been released and can be streamed on Qobuz.

    Bearing in mind my parameters, are there any new(ish) period instrument recordings I've missed? What is your take on the one's sampled thus far? I'm after a cycle to live with, where the novelty won't quickly wear off.

    Over to you.

    *I'm going to add Jan Willem de Vriend and Paavo Järvi to this list once I've had a listen. It's on Qobus. He does the modern orchestra/period brass/period performance-style thing in up-to-date sound.
    ** In a review, someone describes this as 'compartmentalisation'.
    Last edited by Guest; 04-11-12, 14:17.
  • amateur51

    #2
    Interesting thread, Thropples

    Does anyone have views on the set by Roy Goodman & The Hanover Band?

    Comment

    • MickyD
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 4927

      #3
      The Hanover Band set came out pretty early - in fact, if I remember rightly, the first issue of Symphony No.1 came out on a Nimbus LP with the first piano concerto (with Mary Verney on a Broadwood) and claimed to be the first Beethoven symphony recording on period instruments. It was directed by Monica Huggett, then I think Roy Goodman took over as further issues became available. There was a lot of comment about the cavernous Nimbus sound, but I have to say that and the rather rough edges of the HB are attractive to me. I liked their other discs of Schubert, Weber and Mendelssohn too. And their performance of Cherubini's overture to "Anacréon" is electrifying for me.

      Comment

      • Barbirollians
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 11947

        #4
        I wouldn't bother .

        The Beethoven I have enjoyed most with particular HIPP influence - has been Mackerras's Hyperion cycle and the Dausgaard SWedish CO recordings.

        Comment

        • ferneyhoughgeliebte
          Gone fishin'
          • Sep 2011
          • 30163

          #5
          David Zinman?
          [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

          Comment

          • Tony Halstead
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 1717

            #6
            A lost cause,,, Thropplenoggin has already 'wiped the floor' with DZ.

            Comment

            • Bryn
              Banned
              • Mar 2007
              • 24688

              #7
              Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
              David Zinman?
              I seem to recall he gave some nods towards HIPP re. some of the woodwind instruments, etc. Not core HIPP however. More in the Mackerras/SCO(and Philharmona) category, and none the worse for it.

              Comment

              • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                Gone fishin'
                • Sep 2011
                • 30163

                #8
                Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                I seem to recall he gave some nods towards HIPP re. some of the woodwind instruments, etc. Not core HIPP however. More in the Mackerras/SCO(and Philharmona) category, and none the worse for it.
                Oh yes (but aren't the woodwinds playing "in the style of", rather than actually on "period instruments"/copies thereof?)

                ... I was hoping Thropplenoggin knew of a cycle I didn't!
                [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                Comment

                • MickyD
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 4927

                  #9
                  Actually, I think the Collegium Aureum might have been the first period performances, but I think they cheated a bit with instruments...does anyone know if I am right? I must say I liked many of their recordings.

                  Comment

                  • Thropplenoggin

                    #10
                    Mackerras & the SCO on Hyperion appealed to me but I've heard there is rather a lot of extraneous noise.

                    Allmusic: "Furthermore, the microphone placement is close enough to the players that other incidental sounds were picked up, so sensitive listeners can find numerous spots where the reproduction is a little too faithful to reality." although it does say "But these are minor problems for anyone who can get past surface distractions to appreciate the bravura style Mackerras brings to the SCO's performances of the symphonies"

                    It seems to have been noted in other reviews, too.

                    Comment

                    • Bryn
                      Banned
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 24688

                      #11
                      Originally posted by MickyD View Post
                      Actually, I think the Collegium Aureum might have been the first period performances, but I think they cheated a bit with instruments...does anyone know if I am right? I must say I liked many of their recordings.
                      Their 1970s recordings of the Eroica and 7th preceding the HB's recording of the 1st (1982). The HB were indeed the first with the 1st though.
                      Last edited by Bryn; 04-11-12, 14:00. Reason: Update.

                      Comment

                      • Thropplenoggin

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                        I seem to recall he gave some nods towards HIPP re. some of the woodwind instruments, etc. Not core HIPP however. More in the Mackerras/SCO(and Philharmona) category, and none the worse for it.
                        I believe you're a fan of the Immerseel, Bryn. What is it about this cycle that works for you?

                        Comment

                        • aka Calum Da Jazbo
                          Late member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 9173

                          #13
                          i have long enjoyed the Zinman Tonhalle set; my understanding was that it was the scores by Andrew Delmar that were 'authentic' not the instruments ... i would simply not be without them
                          According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

                          Comment

                          • Bryn
                            Banned
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 24688

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Thropplenoggin View Post
                            I believe you're a fan of the Immerseel, Bryn. What is it about this cycle that works for you?
                            Just about everything. The tempi stay close to those indicated by the composer, the orchestra is not too large and the phrasing and dynamic flow suits the music and my ears. I was wary of getting the set after my negative experience with the earlier Sony recording of the 9th, but advocacy for the set from trusted musical friends with advance copies gave the necessary fillip and I 'pre-ordered' it. what is there not to admire about the set? It's just that I like the Krivine CD set even more.

                            Comment

                            • Bryn
                              Banned
                              • Mar 2007
                              • 24688

                              #15
                              Originally posted by aka Calum Da Jazbo View Post
                              i have long enjoyed the Zinman Tonhalle set; my understanding was that it was the scores by Andrew Delmar that were 'authentic' not the instruments ... i would simply not be without them
                              Jonathan Del Mar, Yes?

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