Road-testing Period Beethoven Symphony Cycles - Sundry Thoughts

[MickyD]

Their 1970s recordings of the Eroica and 7th preceding the HB's recording of the 1st (1982). The HB were indeed the first with the 1st though.

The Collegium Aureum also did the first period Missa Solemnis back in the 1970s, which I remember got well and truly hammered by the critic in Gramophone at the time. It would be interesting to hear it now.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Jonathan Del Mar, Yes?

..quite likely

[cloughie]

David Zinman?

? indeed - does this mean you then include all the others who use authentic instruments but play them a bit quick eg VPO Rattle!

[cloughie]

..quite likely

But definitely not Elaine!

[Bryn]

The Collegium Aureum also did the first period Missa Solemnis back in the 1970s, which I remember got well and truly hammered by the critic in Gramophone at the time. It would be interesting to hear it now.

I might just still have that in the loft. I bought it in a sale the EMG record shop that used to occupy a corner position in Soho Square. It had some good soloists, if I recall correctly.

[Found it. I had forgotten that it was a quadraphonic recording (SQ on LP). I doubt a surround version will ever appear on SACD or Blu-ray though. Currently being transferred to hard disc at 44.1/16 for a rough burn to CD-R.]

[cloughie]

Their 1970s recordings of the Eroica and 7th preceding the HB's recording of the 1st (1982). The HB were indeed the first with the 1st though.

I remember the seventh as interesting but a bit stodgy but it is a while ago.

[verismissimo]

I skipped the pioneering period instrument brigade (Hogwood, Gardiner and Norrington) out of personal prejudice against their "clattery" or "too lean" approach. Surely 'period performance' has evolved since then, right? And I never warmed to Harnocourt's HIP-ish compromise (but perhaps that was more Harnoncourt than his compromise!*)

I can see why Thropps wants to discard these, but I'd be interested in some opinions on them.

[Bryn]

I've given up on the transfer of the Missa Solemnis. I must have foolishly lent the discs to a 'freind'. The distortion is horrendous.

[MickyD]

I've given up on the transfer of the Missa Solemnis. I must have foolishly lent the discs to a 'freind'. The distortion is horrendous.

Shame, Bryn...but I'm so surprised you still have a copy of it!

I have always liked the Hogwood performances - his disc of the seventh and eighth were recorded with an enormous period band and pack a real punch, especially in the eighth. Not to everyone's taste, I know! I have always been meaning to get hold of the later Gardiner set, because I would guess his ORR benefited from more years of playing and a slicker performance, but haven't got round to it yet. What can others tell me about it?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If you like Gardiner's approach, I can imagine you'll find his Beethoven Symphonies exciting and invigorating. Personally, I find them monochrome, lacking in nuance and glaringly aggressive. His Missa Solemnis, by contrast, I find as good as any in the catalogue that I know (still haven't got round to Steinberg's: it's a big work that needs an afternoon set aside for it). Of the three Brits (Norrington, Hogwood, JEG) I prefer Norrington. But would go for Bruggen to any of them - and to Krivine well above them all. (van Immerseel is mentioned in my letter to Santa!)

[Thropplenoggin]

Bryn and fhg: what is it you like about the Krivine? Did you not find, say, the opening of the 5th suffers from that 'compartmentalisation' I spoke of vis-a-vis the orchestra? Perhaps I shouldn't listen on headphones!

[MickyD]

I see in this month's IRR that a new Glossa set has been released of all the symphonies recorded in Rotterdam in 2011 by Bruggen. Has anyone heard it yet?

[Thropplenoggin]

I see in this month's IRR that a new Glossa set has been released of all the symphonies recorded in Rotterdam in 2011 by Bruggen. Has anyone heard it yet?

It's available on Qobus, I believe. I read somewhere that the sound wasn't so good. I'll dig around to see if I can find the review.

EDIT:

Here are two reviews:

http://sa-cd.net/showreviews/8194#9275

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/oct/17/beethoven-symphonies-bruggen-review

[Bryn]

I see in this month's IRR that a new Glossa set has been released of all the symphonies recorded in Rotterdam in 2011 by Bruggen. Has anyone heard it yet?

I got them a couple of weeks ago. Generally slower tempi than the early survey. I found nothing in particular to complain about re. the sound of those I have listened to so far (1, 2 and 9 - though 9 was interrupted by various other things, so I was not fully concentrating). I might listen to the Krivine (CD) and new Brüggen recordings of the 5th tonight.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Bryn and fhg: what is it you like about the Krivine?

Much earlier this year there was a discussion-within-a-discussion about the Krivine set. It began with a comment from the much missed Chris Newman:

Glorious stuff that Krevine!! I have just listened to Number 7 (my favourite Beethoven Symphony). Although the period timbre is entirely different the overall jollity and brisk tempi take me back to my first records of Beethoven 7 that I bought in the mid-sixties with the LSO under Pierre Monteux and the Philharmonia under Carlo Maria Giulini (who was brisk until old age: much faster in the trio of the scherzo than Krevine. Giulini played it as a jig). I have put the site on a shortcut as it sounds like a companion for my current favourites (both of the Charles Mackerras sets). Many thanks.

... to which I replied:

The Krivine set as a whole is magnificent, Chris (and not that expensive, I'm sorry to say! ) - the performances lack nothing in incendiary power, but simultaneously manage to convey a dance-like joy in the Music that I've never heard before. Unlike the You Tube video, all repeats are included and audience noise is barely perceptible: in fact the applause at the ends of the works often comes as a shock. Superb playing (must be all the women: more in the 'cello section than in the entire VPO ) and the instrumental "flavours" as well-balanced and exhilerating as a fine single malt.

I was given this set for Christmas, (following several hints!) and it's repeatedly been played since. The CD Review that was so critical about Thielemann was also quite sniffy about these performances (Stephen Johnson occasionally condescending to comment favourably on the odd moment or two): they really missed a "Library Essential" BIG TIME!

Did you not find, say, the opening of the 5th suffers from that 'compartmentalisation' I spoke of vis-a-vis the orchestra? Perhaps I shouldn't listen on headphones!

Can't say I've noticed this: an excuse (as if any were needed!) to listen to it again, with headphones this time.

Best Wishes.