How Unbiased Is The Criticism on CD Review

[VodkaDilc]

Can there be such a thing as unbiased criticism? After all any criticism is, by its very nature, one person's opinion. I mainly buy CDs in the jazz genre (so not featured on CD review). I think reviews on Amazon are helpful, as are those in the Guardian. Opinion on this forum is also informative. If the music can be sampled online/on air before purchase, then that is an added bonus. After time one learns which critics opinions are similar to one's own.

Exactly. The strength of the best BALs is that we hear the reasoning behind the selection. Often I find that I dismiss the first choice according to personal taste. After all, the reviewer is only expressing her/his personal opinion (however well informed it might be.)

[jayne lee wilson]

IRR has some outstanding contributors: Nicholas Anderson, Simon Heighes, Robert Layton, Marc Rochester, John Warrack, Robert Matthew-Walker to name just the first six who spring to mind. And, more importantly, they are given the space to review in depth.

..and the last two named here have led me to unhappy purchases more than once... "difference of opinion" no doubt...

[amateur51]

Why? He's unsurpassed on Bernstein, Mahler and others.

Give me the late much-lamented (in this household at any rate) Tony Duggan every time. At least what he wrote reads like he'd actually listened to the recordings in question ...

Saucer of milk anyone?

[amateur51]

Can there be such a thing as unbiased criticism? After all any criticism is, by its very nature, one person's opinion. I mainly buy CDs in the jazz genre (so not featured on CD review). I think reviews on Amazon are helpful, as are those in the Guardian. Opinion on this forum is also informative. If the music can be sampled online/on air before purchase, then that is an added bonus. After time one learns which critics opinions are similar to one's own.

Bullseye, Old Grumpy

[jayne lee wilson]

There was a time when Rattle was seemingly beyond criticism in the pages of Gramophone.

It was almost embarrassing. Well done to whoever bucked that trend first.

Now I am waiting to see who is brave enough to criticise Nicola Benedetti !

I feel some critics are lemmings ... so it only takes one ....

Rattle formed a special partnership with the CBSO, creating a string of outstanding recordings - Prokofiev 5, Henze 7, Turangalila, Mahler 4&7, some highly accomplished Walton, Ravel, Debussy and Stravinsky, Bartok Cto. for Orchestra and Piano Ctos, and a pair of outstanding Haydn Symphony discs (60,70,90 & 22, 86, 102) which latter I've returned to often with huge pleasure. Marvellous concerts too, frequently relayed on R3. And he did all of this with an out-of-favour provincial orchestra. Got a rather good concert hall built as well. Some of that Gramophone praise might just have been deserved, surely.

In Berlin, the character & history of the orchestra makes it harder for ANYONE to make an impact or form a partnership, Rattle himself says it took 5 years or more, and recordings aren't helped by the latterday favouring of the Philharmonie as a venue instead of the acoustically superior ChristusKirche. So the discography has been a bit patchy, the readings on disc less consistently compelling. But anyone attending the DCH online has heard any number of great performances from him - not least the Haydn 95/Beethoven 7 a few weeks ago, with an excellent Jorg Widmann premiere.

[richardfinegold]

A recent thread by ardcarp in which he laments the lack of disagreement on CD Review when you McGregor discusses new releases with a guest commentator struck a chord (a Neapolitan sixth, no less).

I've often wondered how reliable the criticism is on CD Review. A recent instance was the gushing over home-grown talent like Paul Lewis. I can't imagine a release by Paul Lewis ever being given a detached critique. A frequent bugbear of Amazon.com reviewers is how Gramophone automatically lavishes praise on new releases by English conductors - JEG being, perhaps, the most notable. I'm often minded of Private Eye's yearly 'log-rolling' issue, in which they list the links between puffs by authors in their 'Book of the Year' lists and publishing houses, agents, friends, etc.

Another noticeable facet of BaL is how often the same names crop up again and again as the first choice. Scrolling through this list, you see the same names cropping up for wildly differing repertoire. You can watch trends emerging, how HIP names become hip, with Harnoncourt, Norrington and JEG immediately apparent. What strikes me is how can one conductor - and I'm thinking here of JEG - be the first choice for so many different musical genres: Early Baroque and Late Romantic, say?

There was an article stating that Amazon reviews are just as "reliable" a source of criticism as newspaper and magazines (not difficult when you see the paltry three lines that makes up a Guardian classical CD review!). Although the star system can be 'gamed' - by authors (see the Orlando Figes debacle), record labels, etc. or lunatics like this crétin des Alpes with his 'communiques from the Bach front', frothing at the mouth with 1-star on every JEG release - I have found some very balanced and in-depth reviews on Amazon.

For me, the beauty of the Internet is skipping around and reading a range of different opinions hither and thither and, best of all, using Spotify to sample for myself (assuming its available on there - Harmonia Mundi aren't).

So, what criticism do you find reliable and/or suitably detached from bias, commercial interest, etc.?

One reason that I completely gave up on Gramophone years ago is because of the Parochialism that you cite in the not so subtle gushing over all recordings British. I love your country and many things about it, but to non Brits this bias is very obvious. I do not detect this bias in IRR or BBC Music Mag (to be honest, I usually read one or two articles in the latter which I buy only when the attached CD appeals to me).
Other music review magazines have their biases as well. Fanfare tends to assign all recordings of a certain composer to the same reviewer. Thieir Bruckner reviewer is very knowledgable but he can't abide Jochum, who happens to be my second favorite Bruckner interpreter (after Furtwangler). I therefore ignore his recommendations but enjoy reading him all the same. Fanfare also will frequently assign the same disc to tow reviewers, who reach completely different conclusions.
I completely agree that a service which lets you listen to extended excerpts is the best way to proceed and that you should form your own opinion. Ideally, a service would let you listen to a whole disc one time in some type of non-recordable format. I don't think that will ever happen.

[MickyD]

[QUOTE=
I've often wondered how reliable the criticism is on CD Review. A recent instance was the gushing over home-grown talent like Paul Lewis. I can't imagine a release by Paul Lewis ever being given a detached critique. [/QUOTE]

I haven't heard many Lewis recordings, but for what it is worth, he is an artist who is very much admired here in France. But then, he does get a lot of promotion from French Harmonia Mundi, for whom he records.

[Hornspieler]

I think that "unbiased" in the heading is the wrong word. It should be "how uninfluenced" because we all have our own personal experiences which will influence our reactions, but the programme presenters' comments should be regarded as preferences rather than critiques.

This problem is one of the reasons why I do not bother to listen to this type of programme. It is the decision as to what should be included in the revue.

Who decides? Is it the Presenter? The Producer? It is impossible to guarantee that all available recordings are included, so maybe the bias (or prejudice) starts there.

And who decides how much time is given to each extract? I believe that the whole format makes it impossible for the listeners to decide for themselves which version of a performance they are going to buy - and that is surely the reason for broadcasting the programme in the first place, isn't it?.

HS

[amateur51]

I think that "unbiased" in the heading is the wrong word. It should be "how uninfluenced" because we all have our own personal experiences which will influence our reactions, but the programme presenters' comments should be regarded as preferences rather than critiques.

This problem is one of the reasons why I do not bother to listen to this type of programme. It is the decision as to what should be included in the revue.

Who decides? Is it the Presenter? The Producer? It is impossible to guarantee that all available recordings are included, so maybe the bias (or prejudice) starts there.

And who decides how much time is given to each extract? I believe that the whole format makes it impossible for the listeners to decide for themselves which version of a performance they are going to buy - and that is surely the reason for broadcasting the programme in the first place, isn't it?.

HS

I've been listening to and learning from BaL since the 1960s and it has led me to some wonderful music in outstanding performances. You don't turn off your own critical faculties after all.

I like richardfinegold's observation that Fanfare sometimes gets two people to write reviews of the same disc but I can see that becoming a muddle sometimes too.

When you come down to it, you take a punt and hope for the best. I'll be forever grateful to Trevor Harvey in Gramophone in the 70s I think pointing me towards the recording of Beethoven piano concerto no 5 with Clifford Curzon and VPO/Knappertsbusch. But equally TH will have his detractors for equally good reasons.

[mathias broucek]

Rattle formed a special partnership with the CBSO, creating a string of outstanding recordings - Prokofiev 5, Henze 7, Turangalila, Mahler 4&7, some highly accomplished Walton, Ravel, Debussy and Stravinsky, Bartok Cto. for Orchestra and Piano Ctos, and a pair of outstanding Haydn Symphony discs (60,70,90 & 22, 86, 102) which latter I've returned to often with huge pleasure. Marvellous concerts too, frequently relayed on R3. And he did all of this with an out-of-favour provincial orchestra. Got a rather good concert hall built as well. Some of that Gramophone praise might just have been deserved, surely.

In Berlin, the character & history of the orchestra makes it harder for ANYONE to make an impact or form a partnership, Rattle himself says it took 5 years or more, and recordings aren't helped by the latterday favouring of the Philharmonie as a venue instead of the acoustically superior ChristusKirche. So the discography has been a bit patchy, the readings on disc less consistently compelling. But anyone attending the DCH online has heard any number of great performances from him - not least the Haydn 95/Beethoven 7 a few weeks ago, with an excellent Jorg Widmann premiere.

Wise words. I remember hearing Rattle live with the CBSO several times "back in the day" and they were outstanding concerts. I can still (not) hear the pppppppp at the start of Mahler 1!

[amateur51]

Wise words. I remember hearing Rattle live with the CBSO several times "back in the day" and they were outstanding concerts. I can still (not) hear the pppppppp at the start of Mahler 1!

Yes indeed

[amateur51]

Rattle formed a special partnership with the CBSO, creating a string of outstanding recordings - Prokofiev 5, Henze 7, Turangalila, Mahler 4&7, some highly accomplished Walton, Ravel, Debussy and Stravinsky, Bartok Cto. for Orchestra and Piano Ctos, and a pair of outstanding Haydn Symphony discs (60,70,90 & 22, 86, 102) which latter I've returned to often with huge pleasure. Marvellous concerts too, frequently relayed on R3. And he did all of this with an out-of-favour provincial orchestra. Got a rather good concert hall built as well. Some of that Gramophone praise might just have been deserved, surely.

In Berlin, the character & history of the orchestra makes it harder for ANYONE to make an impact or form a partnership, Rattle himself says it took 5 years or more, and recordings aren't helped by the latterday favouring of the Philharmonie as a venue instead of the acoustically superior ChristusKirche. So the discography has been a bit patchy, the readings on disc less consistently compelling. But anyone attending the DCH online has heard any number of great performances from him - not least the Haydn 95/Beethoven 7 a few weeks ago, with an excellent Jorg Widmann premiere.

Good stuff jlw!

One Sunday aeons ago, word got around that Rattle was 'doing' a and rarely performed score Osud (Fate) by Janáček at London's Queen Elizabeth Hall in the afternoon. I decided to take a punt and was amazed to find a large crowd had gathered & were queuing for tickets. A few years later Rattle took over the South Bank Summer Festival and did some wonderful stuff including Jessye Norman in RStrauss's Four Last Songs, and a complete Sibelius cycle (not so common in those days). A few years further on an here and Michael Viner created the Towards The Millennium series at the Royal Festival Hall in London. Sadly Viner didn't live to see the fruits of their co-operation and it was left to Rattle to inspire a generation I'd say with his thoughtful programming. Berlin's gain was our loss but such is progress.

[jayne lee wilson]

Gosh yes! Towards the Millennium!

I discovered Suk's Asrael and Szymanowski's Stabat Mater thanks to that inspired series...

[amateur51]

Gosh yes! Towards the Millennium!

I discovered Suk's Asrael and Szymanowski's Stabat Mater thanks to that inspired series...

Me too jlw and plenty more. Rattle is gradually introducing a more adventurous repertoire at the BPO, I read but I guess that he has to lead his audience on, too.

Do you subscribe to the BPO concerts? I've been thinking about doing so and a favourable review might tip the balance

[Petrushka]

Gosh yes! Towards the Millennium!

I discovered Suk's Asrael and Szymanowski's Stabat Mater thanks to that inspired series...

I went to several of the Towards the Millennium concerts in Birmingham and I also discovered lots of music I did not know. Inspired programming thoughout and a strong influence on my own CD concerts.