CDs vs Downloads

[richardfinegold]

I'm a newbie here, so forgive me if this has been discussed elsewhere on the forum. However I was wondering what how the regulars here feel about downloads.
I abhor them. I have purchased many mp3 s for my portable listening and also many High Def
Downloads from HD tracks and Linn. I'm no techie but but I am reasonably conversant with the technology and do not think that I am rejecting them from fear of the unknown.
I hate the fact I am constantly having to do network updates and other IT related issues. I hate the occasional loss o data, interruptions of downloads, skipping of tracks, etc.
The audiophile mags purport that High def downloads are sonically superior to any other format. Don't believe it. More later

[johnb]

I don't want to get into the relative merits of CDs/SACDs/downloads as it it very much depends on personal circumstances and preferences.

The one issue with downloads is how to play them - sitting listening to a PC is my idea of hell. Some people connect the output of their PC to their audio system, but there are issues with that, e.g. having a noisy PC in your listening room, relying on poor quality sound cards, etc. There are high end solutions such as Linn and Meridian kit but I went down the (now discontinued) Squeezebox Touch route - bit perfect digital output, with all my music files on a relatively inexpensive server elsewhere in the house. (Though I wouldn't recommend Squeezebox for technophobes.)

I hate the fact I am constantly having to do network updates and other IT related issues.

Why do you have to do network updates, etc? This seems very odd.

I hate the occasional loss o data, interruptions of downloads, skipping of tracks, etc.

Once again I really don't understand. As far as I am aware, I have never lost any data, all the downloads I have done have gone without a hitch (apart from having to re-tag the files) and the tracks never skip.

The only reason I can think of that the tracks might play in the wrong order is because of incorrect tagging of the files.

Perhaps you could give more details of how you play your downloaded files and the problems you encounter.

[Bryn]

I don't want to get into the relative merits of CDs/SACDs/downloads as it it very much depends on personal circumstances and preferences.

The one issue with downloads is how to play them - sitting listening to a PC is my idea of hell. Some people connect the output of their PC to their audio system, but there are issues with that, e.g. having a noisy PC in your listening room, relying on poor quality sound cards, etc. There are high end solutions such as Linn and Meridian kit but I went down the (now defunct) Squeezebox Touch route - bit perfect digital output, with all my music files on a relatively inexpensive server elsewhere in the house. (Though I wouldn't recommend Squeezebox for technophobes.)

I simply copy downloads of mp3s, AACs, etc. to a USB memory stick, plug that into the socket on the front of my newly purchased Onkyo TX-Sr309 surround receiver and play them. Getting the files in the right order can be a bit of a pain so I often use the editing facilities of mp3DirectCut to paste, say, the mp3s or AACs of the movements of a work into one continuous file for playback purposes. The same method works on the USB input of the Philips Blu-ray deck I have in another room. More and more new 'hifi' equipment comes replete with such facilities.

[jayne lee wilson]

Well, true 24-bit files are measurably and often audibly superior to the same CD, but whether you can hear that will depend on your ears, your hifi system's resolving power, and how you play them. HiFiNews has very useful analyses of Hi-res files each month, showing if they're truly what they say they are, or mere upsamplings.

Never connect the analogue output of a computer to your system; take the digital output (optical, usb or coax) to an outboard, separate DAC or a receiver/amp with a DAC onboard. You can store music on the computer or, as johnb says, on a NAS attached to your router.

I set up a comparison once of the Nielsen Orchestral Music album (Da Capo 6.220518, Dausgaard) on 24/96, SACD and CD, CD/24-bit file played through the Cambridge DacMagic.
The 24/96 file was a clear winner, but only just edged out the CD for dynamics, space and detail. The SACD, played on an Arcam CD37, was pure, precise, and - decidedly lacking in rhythmic drive and dynamic range. Other set-ups may give different results of course.

Just buy - practically and pragmatically - what you need and what you will most enjoy, but don't miss out on hi-res treats if you care about the best SQ...

[richardfinegold]

[QUOTE=jayne lee wilson;210898]Well, true 24-bit files are measurably and often audibly superior to the same CD, but whether you can hear that will depend on your ears, your hifi system's resolving power, and how you play them. HiFiNews has very useful analyses of Hi-res files each month, showing if they're truly what they say they are, or mere upsamplings.

Never connect the analogue output of a computer to your system; take the digital output (optical, usb or coax) to an outboard, separate DAC or a receiver/amp with a DAC onboard. You can store music on the computer or, as johnb says, on a NAS attached to your router.

I set up a comparison once of the Nielsen Orchestral Music album (Da Capo 6.220518, Dausgaard) on 24/96, SACD and CD, CD/24-bit file played through the Cambridge DacMagic.
The 24/96 file was a clear winner, but only just edged out the CD for dynamics, space and detail. The SACD, played on an Arcam CD37, was pure, precise, and - decidedly lacking in rhythmic drive and dynamic range. Other set-ups may give different results of course.

I totally agree. I was unable to finish my earlier post, but I have downloaded a few albums in High rez and bought the same recordings in SACD. The SACDs sound at least as good if not better, although the differences are not profound.
The silver discs are so much easier. No one asks me to update software before I can hear a recordings. No pauses or dropouts. No misidentification of tracks. Liner notes. I can relax and enjoy, and not find myself swearing at computer based issues that make me feel like I haven't left work.

[Hornspieler]

"High-fidelity - an Audiophile for me!"

I am absolutely fascinated by all this technical audio stuff which is, to me, about as comprensible as a Japanese amplifier's instruction manual.

For myself, I just listen to the music. Some I enjoy, some I do not care for - but none of it hertz my ears.
Living in a country where there are no pythons or tarantulas, I am not worried about "killer-bites" and my life has always been one of high resolution achieved at low frequency.

Sit back and enjoy the tune. I've just been listening to a home made recording of my late father-in-law playing a selection of popular melodies on the musical saw; which he taught himself to play after severing two fingers of his left hand with an electric saw.

Accompanied on the piano by his late wife and on the violin by my wife, it brings tears to my eyes - for the right reasons.

Never mind the quality - feel the emotion.

HS

[Bryn]

"High-fiddle-de-deee - an Audiophile for me!"

I am absolutely fascinated by all this technical audio stuff which is, to me, about as comprensible as a Japanese amplifier's instruction manual.

For myself, I just listen to the music. Some I enjoy, some I do not care for - but none of it hertz my ears.
Living in a country where there are no pythons or tarantulas, I am not worried about "killer-bites" and my life has always been one of high resolution achieved at low frequency.

Sit back and enjoy the tune. I've just been listening to a home made recording of my late father-in-law playing a selection of popular melodies on the musical saw; which he taught himself to play after severing two fingers of his left hand with an electric saw.

Accompanied on the piano by his late wife and on the violin by my wife, it brings tears to my eyes - for the right reasons.

Never mind the quality - feel the emotion.

HS

I guess this instrument would suit you sir:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z51STsQfWyo

[Suffolkcoastal]

I'm with you on this one HS. Even if I wanted to I couldn't afford all of these gadgets and cables etc, so between my tape deck, LP player, CD Player and Laptop, this is all I really need as I have music in all formats from LPs to downloads.

[richardfinegold]

There are some high resolution downloads that are not available in any other high Rez format, and I'm glad that they are available . I particularly enjoy the Byron Janis recording of the Rachmaninov 2/3 Concertos, which sound stunning, especially considering they are over 50 years old. So downloads are a good thing and I should stop being so dogmatic. I just wish these high Rez downloads could also be available in SACD or Blu Ray.

[Dave2002]

The only reason I can think of that the tracks might play in the wrong order is because of incorrect tagging of the files.

Maybe that is the explanation, but it's infuriating when it happens. I downloaded a bulk set of Wagner some while back - you know around £200 worth of CDs on a £20 or so download. Everything seemed fine until I started listening to one of them which then appeared to jump around between different tracks. No - it was not shuffle play, but I think the production had some of the tags incorrectly ordered.

Solvable no doubt, but there are a lot of tracks, and it would take some sorting. I think the problem only applied to a few of the CD equivalents, but it was annoying, and put me off.

Another problem is when gapless playback doesn't work properly. This was a real pain with some Blacher variations, so in the end I just bought the CD. Problem solved!

Downloads can be good, and they can be cheap, and sometimes they save problems (such as having to create MP3s to play in the car), and sometimes they create even more problems (such as having to create MP3s to play in the car - when the downloads are not in the same format, having to redo the tags (almost always), and issues with gaps as mentioned already).

[johnb]

I would guess that the cause of tracks playing in the wrong order depends on the device or software the tracks are being played on. Some might depend on simple alpha-numeric ordering of the track names, some just on the order when they were copied to the device (as with a cheap mp3 player I have), others depend on the metadata tags.

Presumably your gapless play problems are with mp3 files rather than flac or other lossless files?

[PJPJ]

.....
Presumably your gapless play problems are with mp3 files rather than flac or other lossless files?

Indeed, some equipment won't play gapless whatever file format is used. Embedded graphics can interfere with gapless playing, too, especially if large graphics are embedded.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

:For myself, I just listen to the music..........

Sit back and enjoy the tune.
Never mind the quality - feel the emotion.

If I try that with a 22-track Alpensinfonie recording without gapless playback, I have the joy of listening to 22 separate movements

[richardfinegold]

Maybe that is the explanation, but it's infuriating when it happens. I downloaded a bulk set of Wagner some while back - you know around £200 worth of CDs on a £20 or so download. Everything seemed fine until I started listening to one of them which then appeared to jump around between different tracks. No - it was not shuffle play, but I think the production had some of the tags incorrectly ordered.

Solvable no doubt, but there are a lot of tracks, and it would take some sorting. I think the problem only applied to a few of the CD equivalents, but it was annoying, and put me off.

Another problem is when gapless playback doesn't work properly. This was a real pain with some Blacher variations, so in the end I just bought the CD. Problem solved!

Downloads can be good, and they can be cheap, and sometimes they save problems (such as having to create MP3s to play in the car), and sometimes they create even more problems (such as having to create MP3s to play in the car - when the downloads are not in the same format, having to redo the tags (almost always), and issues with gaps as mentioned already).

exactly what I was refering to. I downloaded a Brahms Symphony Cycle that plays the first movement of all 4 symphonies before it progresses to the second movements of all 4 symphonies, etc. Giulani's Dvorak recordings also were delivered in this fashion. I could recite several other examples as well.
Correctable? Probably, but I haven't figured out how. This stuff absolutely never happens with a silver disc or with vinyl.
I just spent 3 hours at my office trying to fix various IT issues that sprouted in my absence. Nothing i would enjoy more after this than trying to figure out how to get my phone to play the Brahms in the right order. Fun indeed. It's right up there with a root canal, IMO
As long as silver discs remain available and I'm not forced to rely completely on downloaded music I'll be happy. Hopefully the rumored complete demise of the CD is premature indeed.

[MickyD]

As a technophobe, I just know that downloading wouldn't be for me - I have just bought an i-pod in order to transfer some English lessons from CD, and I am going crazy at the lack of any basic useful instructions from Apple for a beginner like me. Sorting out the tracks is a nightmare - even their website manual appears to have no consideration for someone in my situation. Call me old fashioned, but I'll definitely be sticking with CDs.