Bach's Orchestral Suites - Recommendations Please

[Guest]

It's that time of the week again. I'm going through a Bach phase at present, rather limited since I don't actually own that much Bach. I thought it time I invested in the Orchestral Suites.

Here are the contenders from recent research and listening on Spotify, in order of preference thus far:

1) Jordi Savall and Le Concert des Nations

The opening movement includes all the repeats (e.g. Suite 3's overture is 11.41), which seems to add something to the piece. How important do you find repeats in this piece, since most accounts seem to leave them out? Surely they're written in for a reason?

I really like the playing here, especially the horns and drums. A wee bit rough around the edges, which I like. This has been recently gussied up in a new SACD format, though I read complaints about the balance of the instruments in the remastering of Savall's Brandenburg Concertos, and would probably go for the version above.

2) Tom Koopman & Amsterdam Baroque. Gramophone seem to favour this highly. No repeats. I'm quite drawn to this, too.

3) Suzuki & Bach Collegium Japan. This is quite nice, but seems a bit too clinical, lacking in feeling.

I look forward to the suggestions, recommendations and advice of my more sagacious forumistas.

[Dave2002]

Musiua Antiqua Köln conducted by Reinhardt Goebel are supposed to be good. I've sampled their work, but not listened right through. I think they were BAL winners some while ago. I'd rate them highly, but without further investigation can't swear that they are "the best" - whatever that is.

Il Giardino Armonico is usually worth hearing, too, though I can only find No 3, and I think that should be much more vigorous. It seems quite langorous, in their version.

Perhaps Trevor Pinnock with the English Concert might be better.

PS: Your suggestion for Savall is good (the solo violin is too close though at times), though I feel there must be something even better out there. It pains me to write it, but maybe someone has done a modern orchestra version which would get the scale, dynamics, tempi, grandeur required in no 3.

The qualities required in no 2 are rather different, and generally small, preferably HIPP, ensembles work best for that one. I'm not sure about the best ways to do 1 and 4.

[amateur51]

I'd suggest having a listen to the recordings by Café Zimmermann, Thropplenoggin. They're available as a set in this box of delights

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Alpha/ALPHA811

or individually. The Presto site lets you listen to samples from the individual recordings

Happy listening

[Dave2002]

I'd suggest having a listen to the recordings by Café Zimmermann, Thropplenoggin. They're available as a set in this box of delights

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Alpha/ALPHA811

or individually. The Presto site lets you listen to samples from the individual recordings

Happy listening

I agree, to a certain extent. When last I looked it was cheapest to buy the Café Zimmermann set from amazon.es

I wouldn't go so far as to say these versions stand out from all other versions, which might be where am51 and I part, but they are good.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

for many years i had the Naxos box set of Bach Orchestral Works [here] in my office and they were on the player most of the time; an excellent complete set and value for money when i bought them for less than the prcurrent offer at Presto must be said ..

and Cafe Zimmerman have been an excellent set which i downloaded from emusic following recommendation here and i concur with Ams entirely as to their virtues ..

[Thropplenoggin]

Thanks all for the tips. Interestingly, none of you wise souls have anything to say about 'repeats'. I thought the inclusion/exclusion of them were a real bugbear of classical music buffs?

[Tony Halstead]

I really like the playing here, especially the horns and drums

Don't you mean the TRUMPETS and drums, Thropplenoggin?
I've been playing the horn for 55 years and have never played in a Bach Suite.

[Thropplenoggin]

Don't you mean the TRUMPETS and drums, Thropplenoggin?
I've been playing the horn for 55 years and have never played in a Bach Suite.

Then you, sir, haven't lived!

Do forumistas ever make allowances for those new to the Baroque period? I shall now flagellate myself mercilessly with a rolled-up copy of Classical Music for Dummies.

[vinteuil]

... altho' Bach is - by a long way - the most important composer for me, I can't say that his orchestral Suites have ever been among my favourite works - too 'public', perhaps?

Which said, I would agree that Café Zimmermann, and Reinhard Goebel with Musica Antiqua Köln, are lovely - certainly much to be preferred to the older Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien or Robert Haydon Clark / Consort of London, fr'instance.

... after the Suites, you will (of course) be wanting to investigate the early 'Overtures' - BWV 119[a], BWV 1066, BWV 1067 [a], BWV 97 [a], BWV 1068 [a], BWV 1069 [a] - of which there is a decent recording with Siegbert Rampe / Nova Stravaganza, on dabringhaus & grimm...

[Dave2002]

and Cafe Zimmerman have been an excellent set which i downloaded from emusic following recommendation here and i concur with Ams entirely as to their virtues ..

Interesting to hear about the Naxos CDs.

I didn't realise the Café Zimmermann CDs were on emusic. It's a good way of sampling, though if you end up wanting the whole collection it will be cheaper to buy the CDs. I think the CDs are still only available in a box set containing a lot of other works, so a bit of a pain if you only want a few from the collection. Emusic allows you to pick and choose a bit, though it will cost more if you do want the whole set, and the quality won't be as good.

[vinteuil]

Interesting to hear about the Naxos CDs.

I didn't realise the Café Zimmermann CDs were on emusic. It's a good way of sampling, though if you end up wanting thw whole collection it will be cheaper to buy the CDs. I think the CDs are still only available in a box set containing a lot of other works, .

... ah, yes - but you will want those other works. "Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow - but soon - and for the rest of your life... "

[rauschwerk]

Until now my preferred versions have been ECO/Leppard (Nos 1 & 4, nla) and Amsterdam Baroque/Koopman (the others). However, I like the Freiburgers way with Bach (I have their DVD of the Brandenburgs) and have just visited the Presto Classical website and listened to samples. This recording has just picked up a Gramophone award and I am very tempted.

[Thropplenoggin]

Until now my preferred versions have been ECO/Leppard (Nos 1 & 4, nla) and Amsterdam Baroque/Koopman (the others). However, I like the Freiburgers way with Bach (I have their DVD of the Brandenburgs) and have just visited the Presto Classical website and listened to samples. This recording has just picked up a Gramophone award and I am very tempted.

Thanks for your response, rauschwerk. My only niggle with the work is the audible clicking of the baroque bassoons' keys (I only discovered what the source of the noise was from here). Too closely mic-ed, it would seem.

[jayne lee wilson]

Klemperer's mono Philharmonia efforts have their own period charm, and I was very fond of Sandor Vegh's live Salzburg Camerata Academica performances (on Orfeo) when last I heard them... strong on character and individuality!

Savall good for me too, often gone back to it.

[mathias broucek]

I recently picked up cheap (Zoverstocks 2nd hand) Hyperion recordings with Goodman and the Brandenburg Consort. I enjoyed them very much but wasn't listening ultra-closely

I have a couple of the Goebel suites. They're interesting but at the aggressive end of HIPP