Beethoven's First Two Symphonies

[Bryn]

Osborn's CBSO concert is going live on R3, so there's a diary note.

Krivine has moved the goal-posts, put another peak in The Alps, etc. etc....

But yet again I'm moved to mention the great Hermann Scherchen, whose 1&2 really blazed a trail in the mid-50s & still sound marvellous. Richly Viennese (even with the RPO in 2), they are well up to HIPP-speed with pert & expressive phrasing but still with a sweet & cultured string sonority. No excess fat on the tone...

Best on Tahra (with a stunning 3&4, one of the greatest of all Vienna Eroicas) but Pristine has a mellower transfer of No.2 with the land-speed record-breaking No.8...(both RPO).

Any idea as to the quality of the ANDROMEDA transfers of all 9 issued in 2010? The price of £20 on amazon.co.uk looks tempting:

[cloughie]

I just acquired the Konwitschny/Leipzig cycle which I had some of in previous decades. 1 and 2 are good and I'm generally liking the cycle as far as I have reached (Pastoral). But the scherzo in 5.

I seem to remember on LP some of these were cut from the original Fonatana recordings to fit on remasters for Fontana Stereo Special issues - Nos 7 and 8 were on one disc and there was a double LP of No 6 and 9.

[Thropplenoggin]

I just acquired the Konwitschny/Leipzig cycle which I had some of in previous decades. 1 and 2 are good and I'm generally liking the cycle as far as I have reached (Pastoral). But the scherzo in 5.

This is a superlative cycle and the best is yet to come for you. The 7th is the most renown of the set - jaw-dropping from start to blistering finish ...the 9th has one of the most biting, incisive Schezos I've yet heard , and some really fine singing. Once I acquired this set, my Harnoncourt has never come off the shelves.

It deserves to be much more widely known.

--

What are the chances of the Klemperer Beethoven box set on EMI inc. overtures piano concertos and Choral Fantasia with Barenboim coming down in price? It's currently £55 but the reviews from 2011 keep going on about what a bargain it is at £27.

[rkyburz]

(...)
Vinteuil and FHG: in your enthusiastic endorsement of the HIPPsters, you have even convinced me to re-asses this modus operandi, Harnoncourt having dissuaded me from investigating further with regard to Beethoven's symphonies.
(...)

Thropplenoggin, I save you from my ratings of the "older" recordings (you wouldn't like them!), though I should say that I prefer Toscanini / NBC SO (1951) over Walter (CSO, NYPO), Furtwängler (SDR SO, VPO), Klemperer (Philharmonia), and certainly Böhm (VPO), but also Bernstein (NYPO, VPO) for the second symphony.

Hogwood (1983) isn't all that bad, and so is Bernstein with the first symphony with both the NYPO and the VPO), for the second symphony Norrington beats him even in his older recording (LCP, 1986).

Now — that's more for the HIPPsters — to the ones that I really like: Norrington / RSO Stuttgart (2002), Zinman / Tonhalle Zurich (1998), and my favorite, Thomas Dausgaard / Swedish Chamber Orchestra (1999). So far, I have not listened to van Immerseel and Krivine — should probably look into those, too ... I also have not heard the Harnoncourt recordings, but will now refrain from doing so (thanks for that comment!)!

[mathias broucek]

Tend to agree with the recommendations for Jochum (EMI by a whisper from DG, then Phillips), Cluytens and Klemps. But I have to speak up for Celi in No 2. The most beautiful account of the slow movement you'll ever hear and the intro to i is pretty good as well. Not fast and no repeats, please note.

[Roslynmuse]

Coincidentally, have just been listening to Ansermet's 1 and 2 (Decca Eloquence). I'd listened to some of the others in the cycle and found them a bit heavy-handed but enjoyed these two greatly. This volume also has No 3 and No 4 plus a really quite eccentric Coriolan Overture.

[Barbirollians]

I cannot stick Zinman's recordings at all .

[cloughie]

Tend to agree with the recommendations for Jochum (EMI by a whisper from DG, then Phillips), Cluytens and Klemps. But I have to speak up for Celi in No 2. The most beautiful account of the slow movement you'll ever hear and the into to i is pretty good as well. Not fast and no repeats, please note.

That movement is surely the most beatiful Beethoven wrote - I must check out my Celi version it must suit his pace and style.

[cloughie]

Coincidentally, have just been listening to Ansermet's 1 and 2 (Decca Eloquence). I'd listened to some of the others in the cycle and found them a bit heavy-handed but enjoyed these two greatly. This volume also has No 3 and No 4 plus a really quite eccentric Coriolan Overture.

Ansermet's was a dissapointing set - great Decca recordings but performances not living up to them except a great No9.
I remember them from Ace of Diamonds LPs.

[Roslynmuse]

Ansermet's was a dissapointing set - great Decca recordings but performances not living up to them except a great No9.
I remember them from Ace of Diamonds LPs.

The problem with No 9 is that the chorus sounds so cruelly over-stretched. I remember it on an even earlier - Ace of Clubs! - label.

[cloughie]

The problem with No 9 is that the chorus sounds so cruelly over-stretched. I remember it on an even earlier - Ace of Clubs! - label.

Maybe so, I don't usually bother with the finale!

[jayne lee wilson]

Maybe so, I don't usually bother with the finale!

Oh God not again...

Think I'll start a Society for the Protection of Beethoven's 9th...
...and please don't say, oh, it's only the finale... you can't have the 9th without it. Sorry.

[jayne lee wilson]

Any idea as to the quality of the ANDROMEDA transfers of all 9 issued in 2010? The price of £20 on amazon.co.uk looks tempting:

Sorry, I've not heard it nor seen any reviews - looks promising... but -
- it's impossible to know which of 3 Eroicas is included. Even the HS discography at [w.ifastnet.com/hsd/] isn't clear. Despite thrilling moments the (in)famous, hi-speed, stereo Vienna SOO one has at least as many spills as thrills and the best is probably the 1950 Ultraphon VSO reading, which is what Tahra use. Otherwise, the Andromeda versions look well chosen with the RPO in 2, 4 & 8. The only variants with 1&2 are in a later mid-60s Lugano cycle - only rarely available.

[Thropplenoggin]

Thropplenoggin, I save you from my ratings of the "older" recordings (you wouldn't like them!), though I should say that I prefer Toscanini / NBC SO (1951) over Walter (CSO, NYPO), Furtwängler (SDR SO, VPO), Klemperer (Philharmonia), and certainly Böhm (VPO), but also Bernstein (NYPO, VPO) for the second symphony.

Hogwood (1983) isn't all that bad, and so is Bernstein with the first symphony with both the NYPO and the VPO), for the second symphony Norrington beats him even in his older recording (LCP, 1986).

Now — that's more for the HIPPsters — to the ones that I really like: Norrington / RSO Stuttgart (2002), Zinman / Tonhalle Zurich (1998), and my favorite, Thomas Dausgaard / Swedish Chamber Orchestra (1999). So far, I have not listened to van Immerseel and Krivine — should probably look into those, too ... I also have not heard the Harnoncourt recordings, but will now refrain from doing so (thanks for that comment!)!

Thanks, rkburz. Plenty of food for thought in your recommendations. I haven't heard Zinman's Beethoven but like some of his Mahler. I believe another forum member jayne lee wilson is also a big fan of the Norrington / RSO Stuttgart set. And I'd never heard of Thomas Dausgaard, so a new one for me to investigate. Hogwood I do know and tend to like its clattery, blaring sound according to my mood.

I'll also be checking out Celi in 2 - though given his reputation for eccentric readings, a name I've always eschewed.

[Roehre]

Oh God not again...

Think I'll start a Society for the Protection of Beethoven's 9th...
...and please don't say, oh, it's only the finale... you can't have the 9th without it. Sorry.

I am afraid we disagree here. And as Mengelberg (and Verdi for that matter) thought it could be doen, who am I....