Beethoven's First Two Symphonies

[rauschwerk]

Similarly, do any of the "very many 18th Century" examples then go on to make such a song & dance in the retransition in the Recap? The chromatic shifts of key here, rather than where they "should" be, is, I think, unique?

I take it that you are referring to the brief secondary development, bars 188-198. There is a chromatic scale going on in the upper woodwind, but the harmony does not move chromatically. I suggest that this is really quite uneventful compared with what Haydn had already done at this place in sonata movements.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes, those bars where the harmony is d min - C7 - F - D7 - G E7 - a min F7 - Bb G7 - C (where we might expect it to stop; BUT NO!) A7 - d min C7 - F D7 - arriving by this somewhat circuitous route on G. (ii - V7 of IV - IV - V7 of V - V V7 of vi - vi V7 of bVII - bVII - V7 - I V& of ii - ii V7 of IV - IV V7 of V - V)

Why this "circuitous route"? To extend the suggestion made in the first four bars of the introduction and to re-emphasize the V7 of IV - IV with which the work opened.

I'm not going to disagree with your suggestion about Haydn nor do I wish to imply that Beethoven didn't surpass his own high standards later. But I suggest that what the 29 yr-old composer has achieved here (and elsewhere in this movement; and elsewhere in this Symphony) is an impressive work of wit, invention, logic and craftsmanship: the most impressive First Symphony any composer had yet produced.

[rauschwerk]

...the most impressive First Symphony any composer had yet produced.

Well I could hardly argue with that! When Haydn wrote his first, the form had not been in existence for long: when Mozart wrote his first he was but a lad.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes - it is rather like calling Andy Murray "the finest Tennis player in Britain" isn't it! But what about the "very many" other 18th Century Symphonists?


(AND, like Mr Murray, the lack of competition doesn't distract from the achievement: and this gets better over the career. Enough analogy, perhaps!)

PS - I quite enjoy Haydn #1: vigorous, unpretentious joy, with an exciting Horn fanfare to open.

[rauschwerk]

When Beethoven published his Op.1, the symphony had replaced the Mass setting as the compositional 'big deal' so that even one's first effort had to be impressive. I suppose it would be interesting, if laborious, to look at the composition dates of the first symphonies of (say) d'Ordonez, Gassmann, Sammartini etc. If by way of example we take the two composers who played quartets with Haydn and Mozart - Vanhal and Dittersdorf - we find that both began in the 1760s, early in the development of the form. So did Mozart's friend Myslivecek.

[EdgeleyRob]

Yes, those bars where the harmony is d min - C7 - F - D7 - G E7 - a min F7 - Bb G7 - C (where we might expect it to stop; BUT NO!) A7 - d min C7 - F D7 - arriving by this somewhat circuitous route on G. (ii - V7 of IV - IV - V7 of V - V V7 of vi - vi V7 of bVII - bVII - V7 - I V& of ii - ii V7 of IV - IV V7 of V - V)

That must've been a peculiar performance, Simon! The actual harmonies are:

V7 of IV - IV; V7 - vi; V7 of V - V; ii7b - V - V7d - Ib (the first time we hear the Tonic triad of the work!) - Vb V - I (the irst time we hear the Tonic triad in root position) - ii7b - Ic - V - dim7 - vi - IV (the first time we hear the subdominant) - Ic - V V7 - I

.. and that's just the Introduction! The First Group consists of:

I (v) x4; I - V7 of ii - ii (v of ii) x4; ii - iv[add6] (or is it ii half-diminished?) - V7b - V7c - V7d - V7 - I - IV - V - I

... and then we're in the Transition. Which is highly unusual in that it doesn't follow tradition and move away from the home key; rather it simply ends on an Imperfect Cadence before the Second Group commences in the Dominant. Incompetence in the 29-year-old composer? Hardly: many of the movements of the preceeding 20 opera demonstrate mastery of Sonata principles. Rather, Beethoven teases his audience here and in the Recapitulation (where, breaking traditional proceedures, he does move away from the Tonic - in order to completely ignore this elaborate modulation and continues in C major as if nothing has happened! The world of the Symphony is being turned on its head - as if Beethoven is making a rude gesture at his more orthodox and traditionally-minded contemporaries. And do you know of a Symphony written before this that so dramatically melds the Development section into the Recapitulation? The same seismic gesture that we hear in the Fifth Symphony is already here; but here it is more playful and (as I said earlier) impudent.

Oh: and is there a work before this that slithers to the key of the flattened seventh (V7 of vii - vii) in the Exposition as does this work (bars 77 - 87)? or a Development that starts (in both senses of the word!) with a first-inversion Major chord of the "Relative minor" - tripping up any listener who might be expecting an interrupted cadence? And the mastery of the of the last 22 bars: nothing but C major to balance out the lack of C major in the 12 bar Introduction (the faster Tempo meaning that the two passages last approximately the same amount of time)!

This is the work of a genius; not quite yet of the first order, but unquestionable genius nonetheless ... and I haven't even started on the Second Movement, yet!

(By the way, the Development is between bars 110-177 and passes through A, D and G majors, c minor, f minor, Bb major, Eb, F, G, Amajors and settles on E major (entirely the "wrong" key for the end of a Development section - it "should" be G!) - the sleight-of-hand with which Beethoven gets the Music back to the Tonic is managed with the sort of bravura that shows what he learnt from Haydn.)

(Oh, and your harmonic description of the opening actually fits the opening of Mozart's Jupiter Symphony:

I (for two bars); V7c - I; V7b ; V (for two bars); Ib - Vb; I ; I - IV - V7 - I - IV - V7 - I - V7 - I - V7 - I - then unison C - G - C - G - C - E - I - V - I - V - I V I V I V I V V unison G

Wish I'd paid more attention in music (or indeed any) lessons at school.
Is this in code ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Is this in code ?

Yes: Rauschy and I are about to take over Broadcasting House!

[EdgeleyRob]

Yes: Rauschy and I are about to take over Broadcasting House!

Ah! Secret's safe with me

[vinteuil]

Yes: Rauschy and I are about to take over Broadcasting House!

... o, I wish. I so fervently wish...

[Karafan]

It's not me telling you that, it's Beethoven! I would always say it with a smile, but I doubt LvB would...
Cheers with first brandy/mulled bordeaux of the autumn

Sorry everyone, OT (and OTT...)

Cheers Jayne: enjoy!

[jayne lee wilson]

Cheers Jayne: enjoy!

Cheers K.! Feeling poorly a few days now so I'll grab another one soon, "literally" medicinal...

Oh but the thread....
quick belated underwrites for Norrington (SWR) and Zinman in 1&2, some of their best work.

[Barbirollians]

To my uneducated ears Beethoven 1 is a marvellous thrilling innovative work . The fact that 2 & 3 are far more innovative does not make it any less a masterpiece.

[Tony Halstead]

Absolutely, totally agreed and seconded!

[cloughie]

Absolutely, totally agreed and seconded!

and eroicad!

[Flosshilde]

Absolutely wonderful!

Agreed (even though I didn't understand a word of it ). Collapse of stout party?