Gulda's Beethoven Release on Orfeo 1953-57

[Guest]

I'm keen for any feedback on this Orfeo set taken from Austrian radio recordings of Friedrich Gulda playing Beethoven's piano sonatas, Six Bagatelles Op. 126, the Diabelli Variations Op. 120 and the Eroica Variations Op. 35. (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Fr...I1SDC2KN2CN1LW)

I'm most interested in hearing how it compares to his later Amadeo recordings. I like Beethoven played in the Solomon vein, not too clinical, mechanical or detached. These are adjectives I've heard to describe Gulda's Amadeo set from 1967 (now available here with the 5 Piano Concertos: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Fr...I1SDC2KN2CN1LW).

Obviously Solomon didn't record a complete cycle and I'm looking to invest in one of the Gulda sets (I like his Book One of Bach's Well-tempered Clavier) or Gilels (again incomplete) cycle. However, the latter's Beethoven is sometimes described as detached or remote.

I look forward to reading your responses.

[rkyburz]

Your second link is the same as the first one — his newer sonata recordings (in his words "made at a time when the mind is already working, and the technique is still there", or, in German "zu einer Zeit da der Geist schon funktioniert, und die Technik noch immer") are available here, the piano concerts with Horst Stein are available here, and the combination of both in one box here. I had the sonatas and the concerts on LP, and now I have the combined box — all with the newer sonata recordings. I can't really comment on the recordings from the fifties — other than that one of my very first two LPs which I received as a Xmas gift back in 19678 was one with op.13, op.49/2, and op.57; I don't have that recording on CD, so haven't really done a thorough comparison with other recordings, though I must have listened to this so many times that I very much remember many details — I can almost hear it when thinking about it! If I were to re-acquire this on CD, this would be for pure nostalgia (for something that I still remember very well anyway), and if that mandates going for the complete set, I think that would be overdone, given that my favorite Beethoven players these days are Brautigam, Mustonen & Co.

By coincidence I'm just listening to a radio (blind) comparison of 6 recordings of op.2/1 (DRS2, podcast of "Diskothek im Zwei") where Brautigam single-handedly won against Bilson, Mari Kodama, Pollini (latest recording of op.2), Kovacevich, and Buchbinder ...

[Thropplenoggin]

Thanks, rkyburz, for your thorough and engaging response.

There are three sets of Gulda Beethoven out there:

1) the ones you have kindly linked to, the Amadeo set from the late Sixties, now available either on Brilliant Classics or most commonly lumped together with the concertos on this reasonably priced Decca Eloquence set.

2) studio recordings on Decca from 1950-1958. I've heard bits of this on Spotify and the sound seems rather poor to me.

3) Then there is the new Orfeo account, taken from Austrian recordings linked to in my original post. I think this is, technically, his first recording of the sonatas, and wondered how it compared to the more famous 1967 Amadeo account, which critics have described as "mechanical" and "detached", though using these terms in a positive sense (!)

In a related note, I know you have a liking for fortepiano performances and I will seek out some Brautigam to see why he is so consistently praised.

[gurnemanz]

I am a longstanding Gulda fan and had a complete Beethoven Sonata set on LP 40 years ago. I have the Amadeo set on Brilliant Classics and it is an absolute favourite.
I recently got this cheapo box when pointed to it by someone elsewhere on this board:

http://www.amazon.de/100-Meisterkonzerte-Masterconcerts-Sviatoslav-Richter/dp/B001G8P3KM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347964160&sr=8-1

[Contents here: http://www.membran-online.de/product...oducts_id=818]

Disc 7 has Gulda playing and conducting the Vienna Symphony Orchestra in a live performance of the First Concerto in 1953. It is a marvellous record of the early Gulda at work, eg in the long cadenza. The sound is quite reasonable.
The other work on the disc is the Adieux Sonata from 1950. It helps to understand why the 20-year-old was making such an impact. There seems to be a Pearl CD available.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000069KBW/sr=8-1/qid=1347962982/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1347962982&seller=&sr=8-1

[Bryn]

I am a longstanding Gulda fan and had a complete Beethoven Sonata set on LP 40 years ago. I have the Amadeo set on Brilliant Classics and it is an absolute favourite.
I recently got this cheapo box when pointed to it by someone elsewhere on this board:

http://www.amazon.de/100-Meisterkonzerte-Masterconcerts-Sviatoslav-Richter/dp/B001G8P3KM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347964160&sr=8-1

[Contents here: http://www.membran-online.de/product...oducts_id=818]

Disc 7 has Gulda playing and conducting the Vienna Symphony Orchestra in a live performance of the First Concerto in 1953. It is a marvellous record of the early Gulda at work, eg in the long cadenza. The sound is quite reasonable.
The other work on the disc is the Adieux Sonata from 1950. It helps to understand why the 20-year-old was making such an impact. There seems to be a Pearl CD available.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...seller=&sr=8-1

What's your overall view of that 100 Meisterkonzerte Masterconcerts set? I feel quite tempted.

I have all three Gulda Beethoven sonata surveys. I will do some comparative listening and get back. Re. the Decca survey, do remember that there were some quite significant developments in recording technology during the period they were laid down. Those made in the late '50s I find more than acceptable in audio quality.

[vinteuil]

lumped together with the concertos on this reasonably priced Decca Eloquence set.

.

... I see that amazon.fr claim on this link that Gulda is playing this Beethoven - on the recorder! (flûte à bec... )

[Incidentally, I think it's even cheaper on amazon.es... ]

EDIT -

... and just to remind anyone who has the big brilliant 100 CD complete Beethoven - this has the Gulda performances of the piano sonatas and piano concertos...

[verismissimo]

I have the Amadeo set on Brilliant Classics and it is an absolute favourite.

For me too. And Kenneth Hamilton waxed lyrical about it last year on CDR.

[aeolium]

And for me. And his recordings of Mozart piano sonatas ("The Gulda Mozart Tapes") contain some of the most wonderful solo Mozart playing I have heard.

[Bryn]

Gulda's recording of the Diabelli's from the late '60s (last seen on HM's Musique d'abord label) is also well worth searching out. Much to my annoyance I seem to have misplaced the Decca survey of the sonatas for the moment, but listening to Op.7 from the Orfeo set of radio recordings this afternoon made it clear that his approach developed significantly between the time recorded that performance and the set now to be found on Brilliant Classics and Universal's Eloquence labels. When the '60s set appeared as a boxed set of LPs on the Philips label, the sound of the piano was much criticized, but i never found a problem with it. One of the great surveys of the Beethoven sonatas. Worth getting to hear the earlier sets though, to hear how his playing of them developed.

[Thropplenoggin]

rkyburz: I'm currently listening to - and astounded by - Brautigam's Mozart piano sonatas. This is the first time I've heard a fortepiano sound so rich and nuanced in its dynamic and tonal range. Exquisite playing, too.

Dare I try his Beethoven? This could get expensive!

[rkyburz]

rkyburz: I'm currently listening to - and astounded by - Brautigam's Mozart piano sonatas. This is the first time I've heard a fortepiano sound so rich and nuanced in its dynamic and tonal range. Exquisite playing, too.

Dare I try his Beethoven? This could get expensive!

I have all his Mozart, and all his Beethoven (so far, vol.1 - 12), and it's well worth it, IMO. It's not just Brautigam, of course: his Walter piano (replica) is just miraculous (as it is when played by Bezuidenhout, Staier or others) — definitely my favorite (forte)piano. For the later Beethoven works, Brautigam uses a Graf replica that has more volume, at the expense of a less "singing" tone (less harmonics). Be warned: it's addictive, and it makes it harder to listen to recordings on the modern concert grand, like Pollini, who very much lives "in" the modern grand, whereas others, such as Gulda, or — maybe more so — Mustonen use a technique that makes a modern grand sound (a tad) closer to an earlier piano (though still a far cry from a Walter fortepiano!). Sure, these CDs are not cheap — maybe / likely they will be, once the complete set is sold as such — but for myself, I don't want to wait ...

Besides Brautigam, Bezuidenhout is another name to watch out for! Some older favorites of mine: Andreas Staier playing Dussek and Clementi on the fortepiano (haven't yet listened to his Diabelli variations which are on my desk) — for all these Staier plays a Broadwood piano that is yet an entirely different biest, compared to the Graf or Walter fortepiano ...

[Bryn]

Besides Brautigam, Bezuidenhout is another name to watch out for! Some older favorites of mine: Andreas Staier playing Dussek and Clementi on the fortepiano (haven't yet listened to his Diabelli variations which are on my desk) — for all these Staier plays a Broadwood piano that is yet an entirely different biest, compared to the Graf or Walter fortepiano ...

My introduction to Beethoven keyboard sonatas played on instruments of the technological and sound qualities the composer was familiar with was via the four boxed LP sets with Malcolm Binns playing a range of instruments from the Colt Collection.



I continue to treasure those sets. So far, only the last five sonatas from the Binns survey have appeared on CD:



It is greatly to be hoped that those behind the Australian Eloquence label get round to a CD release of the whole set.

The few CDs with recordings of Paul Komen are also well worth seeking out. Even more so are the recordings made by Paul Badura-Skoda of all the sonatas on a selection of historical instruments from his own collection. Not easy to find, but well worth searching out.

[rkyburz]

Thanks for these suggestions! I'll be interested in hearing what your findings are when (and if) you compare Brautigam with Binns. So far, I have neither Binns nor Komen in my collection ...

[Bryn]

Major attractions of the Binns set are the variety of instruments used and the very detailed programme notes that accompanied the discs. To my great annoyance, my booklet for volume 3 disappeared around the time of a house move in the late '80s.

If it came down to it, Brautigam would be my first choice, then Badura-Skoda and Komen, but the Binns set was such an ear-opener. There is also an interesting survey by Malcolm Bilson and some of his former students on Claves. It's a bit pricey but I was fortunate enough to find it at Blackwells for just £45 a few years back. On the whole I would place that set after the Binns though.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/97/10.16.97/Bilson.html

By the way, one of the fortepianists on the Claves set, Tom Beghin, went on to record a really very interesting set of Haydn Sonatas which were released on a set of Blu-ray Audio discs by Naxos. Not only did he use a variety of period instruments for those recordings, the engineers sought to reconstruct the acoustics of a variety of venues they might originally have been heard in. I still marginally prefer Christine Schornsheim's Haydn survey, but the Beghin makes a fine supplement.

[Thropplenoggin]

I gave Brautigam a spin in op.111 last night. He really tore through the Arietta, losing all sense of cosmic mystery and transcendence which many pianoforte pianists are able to tease out of its depths, namely the immense Solomon (my current favourite) and even Pollini (my introduction to the work).

Am I right in thinking Brautigam is using HIP tempi here, applying principles derived from Beethoven's day about playing?

If so, isn't there a danger he loses the 'feel' of the piece by dashing through it. There's no space, no silence, for the music to breathe in.

Timings:

Brautigam: 15' 06
Pollini: 17' 23
Solomon: 17' 57