Good and Bad Klemperer

[Guest]

At a push, O.K. is probably my favourite conductor; in the crowded field of interpreters of the central German repertoire, he has few (if any) equals.

Yet, even his greatest admirers would admit he didn't always come up with the goods, either because of his manic depression, or because he chose repertoire that didn't sit easily with his granite approach.

A lot of people don't like his Mozart and are bewildered by his decision, late in life, to commit as much of the Mozart-Da Ponte output to vinyl. Yet I love his Mozart, perhaps all the more because I'm not a real Mozart fan: Klemperer's 'Beethovenian' approach to W.A.M. gives the music as solidity and seriousness that I find refreshing.

NOT that keen, though, on some of the stuff he did toward the end of his career: that Walkure Act 1 is a bit of a mess, as I recall (evidently, EMI agree with me, because they've chosen to licence it to Testament). And his Bruckner 5 and Mahler 7 have few fans (and are both oop).

Never heard his Pathetique symphony, which I'm assured is a disaster: 'trying to find dignity where there is none..' etc, etc.

Any thoughts on Klemperer's hits and misses?

[StephenO]

Some of his hits (all EMI) - Mahler 2, Das Lied von der Erde, Beethoven Eroica, Emperor Concerto (with Barenboim), Fidelio, Brahms German Requiem, Bruckner 6, Flying Dutchman. Can't think of any misses off hand although I'd rather not imagine what he made of the Pathetique!

[rubbernecker]

Definitely one for my desert island:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Symphonies-Nos-5-7/dp/B00006BCDD/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1294260432&sr=1-4

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

His Die Zauberflote is superb - an antidote to the weedy-sounding HIP attempts at musicanship. [There really does need to be a "run for cover" smiley.]
On the other hand, I become very irritated by his Beethoven 7, which has some fairly sloppy ensemble on all versions of the finale from bar 178 - 195.

[Chris Newman]

I would agree with Stephen that Das Lied von der Erde is the bee's knees, that the EMI Fidelio is very, very good, but that the live Covent Garden Fidelio on Testament is unmissable and something wondrous:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Fidelio-John-Vickers/dp/B0000X81X0/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1294261613&sr=1-3

[gradus]

I'm a fan too and would add the Missa Solemnis recording.

[Steerpike]

I think that Klemperer had two ways of not always coming up with the goods as Mandryka puts it. Firstly, like anyone, sometimes not being up to it for whatever reason. Secondly, and more interestingly, by doing things in a re-thought way, not following interpretive fashion and shocking some people into thinking that what they were hearing was bad.

And just to show (as though we didn't already know) how subjective these things are, I love his Bruckner Fives, most especially the late one with the VPO. But I'm with you, Mandryka, about his Mozart - long ago I found Klemperer a way in to this composer who had previously been largely closed to me.
His Mahler 7 is incredibly interesting but I agree the performance doesn’t 'go'. A few days before at the RFH he made a similar concept of the score really work and brought the house down - if only the microphones had been there.

But who told you Klemperer's Tchaik 6 is a disaster? Take no notice! Together with all his Tchaikovsky it is quite wonderful - just not like so many others! Do try and hear it.

In general, I think Klemperer was variable and perhaps more variable as he got older and there is a tendency for him to be better live that in the studio. As you may know Chris, in addition to the Testament (24/2/61) Fidelio there's long been a another in circulation (7/3/61) which is also tremendous - both better IMO than the nevertheless excellent EMI recording.

Oh, and Alps, I agree Klemperer’s Zauberflote is superb but so are one or two of the weedy sounding HIP ones!

[Mandryka]

I think that Klemperer had two ways of not always coming up with the goods as Mandryka puts it. Firstly, like anyone, sometimes not being up to it for whatever reason. Secondly, and more interestingly, by doing things in a re-thought way, not following interpretive fashion and shocking some people into thinking that what they were hearing was bad.

And just to show (as though we didn't already know) how subjective these things are, I love his Bruckner Fives, most especially the late one with the VPO. But I'm with you, Mandryka, about his Mozart - long ago I found Klemperer a way in to this composer who had previously been largely closed to me.
His Mahler 7 is incredibly interesting but I agree the performance doesn’t 'go'. A few days before at the RFH he made a similar concept of the score really work and brought the house down - if only the microphones had been there.

But who told you Klemperer's Tchaik 6 is a disaster? Take no notice! Together with all his Tchaikovsky it is quite wonderful - just not like so many others! Do try and hear it.

In general, I think Klemperer was variable and perhaps more variable as he got older and there is a tendency for him to be better live that in the studio. As you may know Chris, in addition to the Testament (24/2/61) Fidelio there's long been a another in circulation (7/3/61) which is also tremendous - both better IMO than the nevertheless excellent EMI recording.

Oh, and Alps, I agree Klemperer’s Zauberflote is superb but so are one or two of the weedy sounding HIP ones!

Thanks for that, Steerpike. I would like to hear Klemperer's Pathetique, but it's not currently in print and isn't on spotifiy, either.

[gradus]

Has anyone come across a recording of Mathis der Maler by Dr K. I seem to recall that he referred to it in his interview with John Freemean but I don't think a recording ever appeared.

[gradus]

Oh dear 'Freemean', oddly apt though.

[Gordon]

Has anyone come across a recording of Mathis der Maler by Dr K. I seem to recall that he referred to it in his interview with John Freemean but I don't think a recording ever appeared.

The Philharmonia discography does not have a Klemperer recording of MdM in it - it has only one by Silvestri from February 1958, immediately after a series of Karajan sessions.

It is possible that he made a live recording of it somewhere else? His experience with Hindemith wasn't that good if the Horn Concerto with Dennis Brain in October 1954 is anything to go by - Brain walked out of the sessions and only a Nobilissima Visione was issued.

[Ferretfancy]

I've just taken the opportunity to listen to Klemperer's Brahms 1 from 1955, and I'd certainly put that on my best of K list. I know this type of magisterial performance won't please everybody, but it's the integrity that shines through. Another favourite of mine is his version of Stravinsky's Symphony in Three Movements, again very steady but very satisfying.
Gordon mentions the absence of a Mathis der Mahler by Klemperer, could this perhaps be that EMi already had a Karajan version with the BPO ? It's a stunning performance.

[Gordon]

Gordon mentions the absence of a Mathis der Mahler by Klemperer, could this perhaps be that EMi already had a Karajan version with the BPO ? It's a stunning performance.

Yes that MdM of Karajan's was made in Berlin in 1957 and it is a very good recording [from memory- I no longer have it - went out with most of the LPs a long while ago] and may well have put EMI off a Klemperer recording as they were still trying to placate a restless Karajan at that time. So what was all that in the Freeman interview about then?

As to Klemperer's Brahms 1 - yes I think it is still ultimately the most satisfying recording of the piece, despite its age - and it has Dennis Brain's glorious horn playing in the transition to the finale [also heard in the Toscanini, Karajan and Cantelli versions]. He started to record Brahms 1 in December 1955 [he was in London doing concerts for the BBC, 5 at Maida Vale and one at the RFH] but they abandoned the sessions to continue in October 1956 and finished off in March 1957. The released performance almost certainly is taken from the later sessions. His wife was seriousy ill at this time and eventually died on November 3rd 1956 in Munich.

The flirtation in the early 60s with recordings of non "classical" repertoire certainly pays off with that Stravinsky - neo-classical I suppose - Klemperer was always careful with the balance of the the wind group and lends a certain pungency to his Stravinsky and to Weill's Threepenny Opera which he knew well from his Berlin days. Much under-rated.

Someone mentioned the Zauberflote earlier - that is a great recording of the piece. He gives it the solemnity but also the vigour and power it requires. And all the time it was recording in March and April 1964 he and Legge were falling out and Legge was preparing to close the Phiharmonia down!!

[Cellini]

I would agree with most of what has been said here and in particular the comments by Ferret and Gordon.

I find very little wrong with OK and his Mozart is special.

[Steerpike]

I very much agree about the greatness of OKs Brahms 1. From memory, the opening on vinyl of the stereo was noticeably slower than the mono. I preferred the mono but, of course, it's the stereo that's available now. Different takes of just part or of the whole of the first movement? Anyone know?