Jayne Lee Wilson's thoughts on Norrington's Beethoven

[Karafan]

Evening playmates,

I am pondering buying Norrington's Stuttgart (live) Beethoven cycle from Stuttgart on Hänssler Classic. I have searched the site, as I seem to recall an Jayne being an ardent advocate of the set and I thought re-reading her wise words might tip the scales in its favour. However, the search came up blank for the thread in question (if my memory wasn’t playing me false?).

Can anyone please assist, or failing that perhaps Jayne might care to weigh-in once more with a few of her considered reflections on the set (along with anyone else who has a view, naturally!).

Many thanks

Karafan

[akiralx]

Not sure you'll like it... His Bruckner 6 is pretty good though.

[jayne lee wilson]

I can hardly fail to reply to that one can I?

The first thing to say is that Norrington's live SWR Stuttgart cycle is the best-recorded cycle I've heard. Airy, warm acoustic, ideal, immediate mid-hall orchestral perspective, clear, smoothly-integrated woodwind detail. Very wide dynamic range, instrumental timbres richly and clearly caught. Broadly, the readings are swift, direct and dramatic in Norrington's familiar clipped-phrase, largely vibrato-less manner. But just listen to the start of the marcia funebre in No.3, where the rhythms are so true, the phrasing so eloquent, the tragedy is so freshly expressed. Shattering, horn-led climaxes later on. So much for vibrato. Oh, and then listen to the scherzo... I just have and - wow! "Just buy it" I feel like saying. The textures are light as air, rhythms are punched out, the horns prominent and brilliant.... then terrific weight in the climaxes. Breathtaking. Lower strings are centrally placed (1st and 2nd violins fencing in the 7th's finale!), aiding clarity and especially telling in the trio repeat of No.5, wonderfully dry, clear and rhthmically infectious. Brass are more prominent than usual, which does occasionally mean they "shout" a little in climaxes; but that only adds to the heroic excitement.

I've not played the whole set recently, but I don't recall a weak performance anywhere, and playing any part of it only makes you want more. It is very "live" in atmosphere, and (enthusiastic!) applause is included - which for me only enhances the sense of a momentous event.

Finally, the cycle is crowned by an extraordinary 9th - spectacularly recorded, explosively powerful, swift and truly joyful at the end - with fabulous choral and solo singing. I've simply never heard a better one.

"Just buy it", again - in a complete cycle there will always be moments you take issue with. You may miss the slower, more fully-sung cantabile playing of more traditional cycles, find a slow movement a little swift, crave the austro-german rhetoric of a Bohm or a Furtwangler. But unless you are wedded to such a sound, I can't imagine any music-lover not responding to this freshly read, brilliantly-played, stunningly-recorded traversal.

If you look for Norrington's Reviews Digest at ClassicsToday.com ( or google on "Norrington Classics Today"), you'll find some enthusiastic reviews there - by David Hurwitz (I know, I know...) who is not usually a friend to Norrington's interpretative approach. If I can find Richard Osborne's Gramophone review in the archive I'll edit in a mention later.

And "just buy it"!

[johnb]

Don't you just hate it when someone chips away at lovingly sculpted prejudices?

[BBMmk2]

How fresh and invigorating this cycle sounds! I just will have to have a look and see!! Norrington doies't usually 'grab' me but hearing JLW's words on this, you feel thatyou should at listen to it once!

One very small comment though JLW, 'marcia funebre', in No.3 should read 'marche funebre'!! :) (Marcia is the Italiano!! Marche - French)

[Karafan]

I can hardly fail to reply to that one can I?

The first thing to say is that Norrington's live SWR Stuttgart cycle is the best-recorded cycle I've heard. Airy, warm acoustic, ideal, immediate mid-hall orchestral perspective, clear, smoothly-integrated woodwind detail. Very wide dynamic range, instrumental timbres richly and clearly caught. Broadly, the readings are swift, direct and dramatic in Norrington's familiar clipped-phrase, largely vibrato-less manner. But just listen to the start of the marcia funebre in No.3, where the rhythms are so true, the phrasing so eloquent, the tragedy is so freshly expressed. Shattering, horn-led climaxes later on. So much for vibrato. Oh, and then listen to the scherzo... I just have and - wow! "Just buy it" I feel like saying. The textures are light as air, rhythms are punched out, the horns prominent and brilliant.... then terrific weight in the climaxes. Breathtaking. Lower strings are centrally placed (1st and 2nd violins fencing in the 7th's finale!), aiding clarity and especially telling in the trio repeat of No.5, wonderfully dry, clear and rhthmically infectious. Brass are more prominent than usual, which does occasionally mean they "shout" a little in climaxes; but that only adds to the heroic excitement.

I've not played the whole set recently, but I don't recall a weak performance anywhere, and playing any part of it only makes you want more. It is very "live" in atmosphere, and (enthusiastic!) applause is included - which for me only enhances the sense of a momentous event.

Finally, the cycle is crowned by an extraordinary 9th - spectacularly recorded, explosively powerful, swift and truly joyful at the end - with fabulous choral and solo singing. I've simply never heard a better one.

"Just buy it", again - in a complete cycle there will always be moments you take issue with. You may miss the slower, more fully-sung cantabile playing of more traditional cycles, find a slow movement a little swift, crave the austro-german rhetoric of a Bohm or a Furtwangler. But unless you are wedded to such a sound, I can't imagine any music-lover not responding to this freshly read, brilliantly-played, stunningly-recorded traversal.

If you look for Norrington's Reviews Digest at ClassicsToday.com ( or google on "Norrington Classics Today"), you'll find some enthusiastic reviews there - by David Hurwitz (I know, I know...) who is not usually a friend to Norrington's interpretative approach. If I can find Richard Osborne's Gramophone review in the archive I'll edit in a mention later.

And "just buy it"!

Thanks very much Jayne (and for giving your summation at such an ungodly hour - what were you doing?!). I did remember correctly your very infectious enthusiasm and your advocacy is highly persuasive!

Akiralx rightly recalls my none-too-enthusiastic approach to Norrington (we both having been underwhelmed, together, at a Leeds concert he gave some years ago), but I very much enjoyed his recent Stuttgart Haydn London symphonies and had heard a number of good reports of the Beethoven. The recorded sound of the Haydn - presumably undertaken by the same engineers in the same hall - was in the demonstration bracket. My Beethoven collection goes from Klemps and Furtwängler right up to Järvi and Dausgaard, so the hard stick & vibrato-less approach is not quite anathema to me!

I would certainly appreciate the Gramophone musings you mention, Jayne and will check out Hurwitz (through gritted teeth)

Think I will go for this set. Oddly enough I would be more hesitant about him in Bruckner, Akiralx. Care to ease my doubts?

Thanks all

K.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't know the rest of RN's Bruckner cycle, Karafan, but the Sixth from that set is an outstanding achievement.

[amateur51]

Don't you just hate it when someone chips away at lovingly sculpted prejudices?

very generous johnb

[HighlandDougie]

I don't know the rest of RN's Bruckner cycle, Karafan, but the Sixth from that set is an outstanding achievement.

I second that: somewhat to my surprise, RN's vibrato-lite approach works very well in this symphony (the scoring lends itself better to this approach than might be the case in, say, the 5th). Indeed, having been for years a Klemperer devotee in this symphony, it's now the Norrington version which I turn to when I want to listen to it. Excellent recording as well.

[JohnSkelton]

They are wonderful performances - full of spirit and life and dare. Another marvelous set is Krivine's with La Chambre Philharmonique.

One very small comment though JLW, 'marcia funebre', in No.3 should read 'marche funebre'!! :) (Marcia is the Italiano!! Marche - French)

Marcia Funebre is perfectly OK, Bbm:

La Sonata n. 2 op. 35 in si bemolle minore è certamente la più celebre delle tre sonate di Fryderyk Chopin; composta nel 1839, è sorta "attorno" al terzo movimento, la Marcia Funebre, che era già stato abbozzato nel 1837, all'epoca del soggiorno a Nohant nel castello dell'allora compagna George Sand. http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonata_n._2_%28Chopin%29

[jayne lee wilson]

Karafan - I have that SWR Haydn London Symphonies set and it is indeed outstanding- one of the very best. And yes, the Beethoven is similarly recorded but on a bigger scale. It is the Stuttgart Liederhalle throughout, Beethovensaal for LVB, but the more intimate, slightly sweeter-sounding (and visually stunning) Hegelsaal for the Haydn. Personnel largely the same - Friedemann Trumpp is tonmeister for all of the LVB and about half of the Haydn.

I can only concur with others about RN's Bruckner 6th - a worthy successor to Klemperer. The Stuttgart 1873 3rd is still worth buying, again marvellously played and recorded. It remains a little too rushed in places, the gesangsperiode sections especially. But, far better than his earlier attempt. Very stimulating listening!

BBm - I never thought about the marche/marcia thing, it is a bit odd - "marcia" doesn't figure in any French dictionary I have, but it always says "Marcia" on CD inlays. I guess LVB wrote it that way, perhaps after the model of alla marcia.

These SWR Stuttgart Haydn, Beethoven and, perhaps less consistently, Bruckner recordings will probably remain Norrington's best legacy.

[ahinton]

They are wonderful performances - full of spirit and life and dare. Another marvelous set is Krivine's with La Chambre Philharmonique.



Marcia Funebre is perfectly OK, Bbm:

La Sonata n. 2 op. 35 in si bemolle minore è certamente la più celebre delle tre sonate di Fryderyk Chopin; composta nel 1839, è sorta "attorno" al terzo movimento, la Marcia Funebre, che era già stato abbozzato nel 1837, all'epoca del soggiorno a Nohant nel castello dell'allora compagna George Sand. http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonata_n._2_%28Chopin%29

Indeed! "Marche" is indeed French but "Funebre" is both French and Italian (albeit with different pronunciation) and I think that this is where the confusion may have arfisen!

[ahinton]

I have to confess that I really do still struggle to come to terms with Brucknorrington; that said, it is perhaps somewhat surprising that what I imagine will ultimately prove to have been the first recording of the complete Bruckner Ninth Symphony to break the awful and long-standing tradition of its "three movement version" has been performed by a conductor who's not really made much of a name for himself with Bruckner to date, even though you'd not know it from this performance (OK, BPO do know it rather well, but...)

[Bryn]

I have to confess that I really do still struggle to come to terms with Brucknorrington; that said, it is perhaps somewhat surprising that what I imagine will ultimately prove to have been the first recording of the complete Bruckner Ninth Symphony to break the awful and long-standing tradition of its "three movement version" has been performed by a conductor who's not really made much of a name for himself with Bruckner to date, even though you'd not know it from this performance (OK, BPO do know it rather well, but...)

Except that there are several recordings using earlier 'completions' of the final of the Ninth.

[Karafan]

Karafan - I have that SWR Haydn London Symphonies set and it is indeed outstanding- one of the very best. And yes, the Beethoven is similarly recorded but on a bigger scale. It is the Stuttgart Liederhalle throughout, Beethovensaal for LVB, but the more intimate, slightly sweeter-sounding (and visually stunning) Hegelsaal for the Haydn. Personnel largely the same - Friedemann Trumpp is tonmeister for all of the LVB and about half of the Haydn.

I can only concur with others about RN's Bruckner 6th - a worthy successor to Klemperer. The Stuttgart 1873 3rd is still worth buying, again marvellously played and recorded. It remains a little too rushed in places, the gesangsperiode sections especially. But, far better than his earlier attempt. Very stimulating listening!

BBm - I never thought about the marche/marcia thing, it is a bit odd - "marcia" doesn't figure in any French dictionary I have, but it always says "Marcia" on CD inlays. I guess LVB wrote it that way, perhaps after the model of alla marcia.

These SWR Stuttgart Haydn, Beethoven and, perhaps less consistently, Bruckner recordings will probably remain Norrington's best legacy.

Darn it, I've now added the Bruckner 6. Now, all of you, just stop leading me astray or you'll have the bank manager to answer to (if he's not otherwise distracted massaging the Libor rate).

Jayne - did you happen to track down the Gramophone review you mentioned for the Beethoven?

Thanks again

K.