Bleeding chunks ?

[Ferretfancy]

Cloughie

I'll certainly take your recommendation, the disc is called Luxury you can Afford.

[Roehre]

For me, these are not BCs, Roehre. Rather they are abstracted whole movements. True BCs are wrenched (bleeding!) from continuous music, if you see what I mean.

You mean these are just played alone movements, not fragments cut out from a work - the programme makers get their pound of flesh then without spilling a drop of blood

[cloughie]

You mean these are just played alone movements, not fragments cut out from a work - the programme makers get their pound of flesh then without spilling a drop of blood

Bleeding or not they are still chunks and unsatisfactory and in overabundant presence on R3.

[Osborn]

Whether it's Beethoven's 9th, Britten's War Requiem, Brahms' Violin Concerto or some ghastly Mahler - if you missed the beginning or the end, or any bit in the middle you've been listening to a bleeding chunk, haven't you?

[Ferretfancy]

Oh dear Osborn! " ghastly Mahler " that's living dangerously around here!

[cloughie]

Whether it's Beethoven's 9th, Britten's War Requiem, Brahms' Violin Concerto or some ghastly Mahler - if you missed the beginning or the end, or any bit in the middle you've been listening to a bleeding chunk, haven't you?

I think you are stating the bleeding obvious!

[Pabmusic]

We've come a long way from the original meaning of 'bleeding chunks'. It seems to be from Donald Tovey's Essays in Musical Analysis, Vol. II, p.71, where he wrote:

“Defects of form are not a justifiable ground for criticism from listeners who profess to enjoy the bleeding chunks of butcher’s meat chopped from Wagner’s operas and served up on Wagner nights as Waldweben and Walkürenritt“.

From this, surely, it follows that Tovey in 1935 meant the term as a very superior put-down for people he considered too crass to want to hear the music in context. In fact, liking those bleeding chunks bars you from criticising music at all!

He'd have hated this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bleeding-Chu...9803356&sr=8-1

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

“Defects of form are not a justifiable ground for criticism from listeners who profess to enjoy the bleeding chunks of butcher’s meat chopped from Wagner’s operas and served up on Wagner nights as Waldweben and Walkürenritt“.

From this, surely, it follows that Tovey in 1935 meant the term as a very superior put-down for people he considered too crass to want to hear the music in context. In fact, liking those bleeding chunks bars you from criticising music at all!

Oh, I don't think Tovey meant that, Pabs: I read his comment as a criticism of those who, whilst "professing" an enjoyment of the "highlights", made snide comments about what they perceived as "the boring bits". (The "wonderful moments, dreadful half-hours" school.) It sounds more like a criticism of those "wits" who, during a conversation about a David Attenborough programme, proclaim their love of animals "if cooked well".

[cloughie]

Oh, I don't think Tovey meant that, Pabs: I read his comment as a criticism of those who, whilst "professing" an enjoyment of the "highlights", made snide comments about what they perceived as "the boring bits". (The "wonderful moments, dreadful half-hours" school.) It sounds more like a criticism of those "wits" who, during a conversation about a David Attenborough programme, proclaim their love of animals "if cooked well".

I think that there are many bleeding chunks overcooked for Breakfast!

[Pabmusic]

Oh, I don't think Tovey meant that, Pabs: I read his comment as a criticism of those who, whilst "professing" an enjoyment of the "highlights", made snide comments about what they perceived as "the boring bits". (The "wonderful moments, dreadful half-hours" school.) It sounds more like a criticism of those "wits" who, during a conversation about a David Attenborough programme, proclaim their love of animals "if cooked well".

You know, I hadn't thought of it like that. But it's a valid reading. Ultimately, it means that the quote is somewhat ambiguous - which is a disappointment.

[Roehre]

I think that there are many bleeding chunks overcooked for Breakfast!

In this day and age of PC that's accompanied by what we are calling African toast