Nicholas Anderson on The RIAS Bach Cantata Project

[Guest]

Such a coincidence: minutes after the postman delivered my set of The RIAS Bach Cantata Project (a purchase based on the IRR review), Nicholas Anderson was discussing it at length on CD Review. I had been having doubts - perhaps the sound, from 60 year old broadcasts, would be unacceptable, even if the performances were good. Hearing them, I need have no doubts on either score. The performances are amazing and the sound gives no impression of age - OK, a few, but it perhaps sounds 20 years old, not 60.

It was also wonderful to hear such a doyen of reviewers as NA once again. His thoughtful, measured approached is so dreadfully missing from R3.
One quotation was so delightfully that of a high court judge of the Chatterley era that I had to write it down. Describing a turgid harpsichord player he remarked:

"It is, as some of us say nowadays, I believe, in your face." The last three words pronounced with the disdain of a Brian Sewell.

The host, AMcG, gave an ambiguous impression at the end of the review, when he said the set of nine CDs had notes and libretti, but no translations. This led me to wonder if there was documentation in English or just in German. In fact there is lavish description of the project and of Karl Ristenpart - but no translation of the cantatas themselves. Please be more precise, Mr McG.

He also produced another example of the BBC supporting the government cuts line: "Lack of libretto translations will be no problem to those with internet access" - not "All you need to do is to pop to the library and get the scores". That's right BBC, let the masses forget what a fine resource the library network has been for generations.

Let's have more Nicholas Anderson!! And a bit less Andrew McGregor perhaps.

[vinteuil]

... minutes after the postman delivered my set of The RIAS Bach Cantata Project .... Nicholas Anderson was discussing it at length on CD Review. I had been having doubts - perhaps the sound, from 60 year old broadcasts, would be unacceptable, even if the performances were good. Hearing them, I need have no doubts on either score. The performances are amazing and the sound gives no impression of age - OK, a few, but it perhaps sounds 20 years old, not 60.
It was also wonderful to hear such a doyen of reviewers as NA once again. His thoughtful, measured approached is so dreadfully missing from R3.
.... Let's have more Nicholas Anderson!! .

Yes, this was a wonderful piece of Radio 3 at its best, heart-warming.... and on the strength of it I too have ordered the RIAS Ristenpart Bach cantatas (incidentally much cheaper on amazon.de than on amazon.co.uk )

Nicholas Anderson is my platonic idea of a CD Review reviewer

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

He also produced another example of the BBC supporting the government cuts line: "Lack of libretto translations will be no problem to those with internet access" - not "All you need to do is to pop to the library and get the scores". That's right BBC, let the masses forget what a fine resource the library network has been for generations.

Whilst I agree that, with Mr McG, less is definitely more, I can't really agree with Voddy's comment here. Even when we had a local Library, scores of the Bach Cantatas weren't exactly cramming the shelves: it was always either a car/bus/train ride to the nearest Central Library, and/or reserving them from said resources, waiting a week at least. To anybody requiring just the libretti of the works, t'Internet is a vastly superior and more convenient resource: just go to the Bach Cantata Website, for one, and instantly you can view three or more English translations of each Cantata. (There are also other languages translations, too, should anyone want to compare!)

And count me as a member of the NA Fan Club, too!

[VodkaDilc]

Whilst I agree that, with Mr McG, less is definitely more, I can't really agree with Voddy's comment here. Even when we had a local Library, scores of the Bach Cantatas weren't exactly cramming the shelves: it was always either a car/bus/train ride to the nearest Central Library, and/or reserving them from said resources, waiting a week at least. To anybody requiring just the libretti of the works, t'Internet is a vastly superior and more convenient resource: just go to the Bach Cantata Website, for one, and instantly you can view three or more English translations of each Cantata. (There are also other languages translations, too, should anyone want to compare!)

And count me as a member of the NA Fan Club, too!

My memory could be less reliable than it was, but didn't the original LPs of the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt cantata series have the scores included?

On the library issue, I am fortunate to have bought up a large number of individual cantata scores when a local music shop was selling them off prior to closing. Of course, if kids aren't taught to read music in schools, listeners won't need the scores anyway.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

My memory could be less reliable than it was, but didn't the original LPs of the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt cantata series have the scores included?

Yes, they did! (I'd forgotten this.)

On the library issue, I am fortunate to have bought up a large number of individual cantata scores when a local music shop was selling them off prior to closing.

That's interesting: there was a similar instance of a shop sell-off in Haverford West some years ago: I didn't buy because they were small-sized reprints of the old Breitkopf editions (with the Sopranos written in Soprano - rather than Treble - Clef). I kick myself now: it would've been fun learning to read from the clef fluently.

Of course, if kids aren't taught to read music in schools, they won't need the scores anyway.

I don't know many people, other than Music professionals, who can read Music fluently no matter what their age. They remember "Every Good Boy Deserves [insert any naughty word beginning with "F!", but otherwise they get their crotchets and quavers muddled. (I have comparable problems remembering my school French!) But my 16 yr-old grand-neice is preparing for her GCSE Music Exams with the score of Schonberg's Five Orchestral Pieces - at her age, the most complicated score I had to cope with was RVW's Serenade to Music!

[PJPJ]

Audite does wonders with their historic recording releases.

Much info about the Bach recordings here

http://www.audite.de/media/file/00/07/33/21415-Press-kit-Bach-Cantatas

[VodkaDilc]

Audite does wonders with their historic recording releases.

Much info about the Bach recordings here

http://www.audite.de/media/file/00/0...-Bach-Cantatas

Thanks PJPJ. The first few pages come from the CD documentation, but the photos and other original reviews and recording documents look fascinating. (Though I will need my German dictionary to hand!)

[PJPJ]

It's well worth having a good look at the historic recordings pages at Audite - they all have extensive material extra to the releases. The Klemperer and Celi boxes are on my wish-list, too - I'm hoping MDT will have an Audite offer before too long.

Nicholas Anderson's excellent review can be read in full on the site:

http://www.audite.de/en/product/9CD/21415-the_rias_bach_cantatas_project.html

Reviews - then click the + next to the IRR one. A pdf of the review is available, too.

http://www.audite.de/en/download/pdf/review/10999-international_record_review-karl_ristenparts_recordings_of_a_dozen_or_so_of_bachs_cantatas_dating_from.pdf

[euthynicus]

I'm not as wild as some of you about NA, but I'm glad CDR were persuaded to promote a fine set that might, in other contexts, have been dismissed with the ahistorical broad brush of 'We know better now...'. Of course it's nonsense to suggest, as both NA and AMcG did, that one of the principal virtues of Ristenpart's approach is, indeed, some putative visionary quality that sets it aside from all other Bach performance of its time - which they did by citing Richter and no-one else as representative of that time. Richter cultivated a particular performance style not least through a cult of personality and and the unique backing of a major record company. Meanwhile several other interpreters shared Ristenpart's keen sense of drama and lighter articulation, not least Fritz Werner (even if Werner's tempi lie somewhere between Ristenpart and Richter). Then there's the fascinating Cantate series, which still badly needs a CD reissue, containing lithe performances by the likes of Helmut Barbe, Wilhelm Ehmann and Hans Heintze. The wider dissemination of this might help to correct the absurdly durable canard that Bach performance has attained some niveau of stylistic excellence thanks to Harnoncourt, Leonhardt and Gardiner et al, and the efforts of previous interpreters count for little more than quaint, 'historical' value.

[rank_and_file]

VodkaDilc

Agree very much with your post. Much more of Nicholas Anderson please!

On the RIAS set even MDT are cheaper than Amazon uk.

[VodkaDilc]

VodkaDilc

Agree very much with your post. Much more of Nicholas Anderson please!

On the RIAS set even MDT are cheaper than Amazon uk.

I'm looking for a good source of CDs now that The Woods is almost gone (I managed to get in with the RIAS order - £44.99 - and I think they are still just about taking orders.) The Woods will be difficult to replace (I prefer to phone orders and have a chat, but I suppose that's very 20th century!) and I won't use Amazon on principle. Is MDT one to go for? Good prices? Free postage? Quick service? Or any other suggestions?

[rank_and_file]

I have been using MDT for quite some years now. Over the years only one return for a broken CD case - no problems. They seem quite pro-active in offering sales of record producers’ back catalogue efforts. Service quick, order processing via email good, however, postage is 75p per disc which can hurt on box sets.
Prestoclassical seem to be more expensive, but have a better site, in the sense they often link audio extracts of the CDs. Amazon uk often very competitive and I feel rather guilty when I use them rather than MDT purely on price grounds.

Have recently registered with GramophonePlayer - free. Seems to be like having the old disc attached to the magazine and the streaming download quality is true CD quality - excellent with quite long excerpts. So, for new issues, an intriguing resource.

[Nick Armstrong]

Yes, this was a wonderful piece of Radio 3 at its best, heart-warming.... and on the strength of it I too have ordered the RIAS Ristenpart Bach cantatas (incidentally much cheaper on amazon.de than on amazon.co.uk )

Nicholas Anderson is my platonic idea of a CD Review reviewer

I quite agree. He is up there with Stephen Plaistow, in my book. A great listen - and revelatory as regards those RIAS cantatas.

I haven't been tempted to buy - but I was moved to take off the shelves some of the Harnoncourt-Leonhardt recordings I have. Following the comments by Nicholas Anderson about the treble soloists, I was glad to find a copy, picked up second hand years ago for pennies, of this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Voices-...6324239&sr=1-1 - a good sampler for reminding oneself of the excellence of some of the soloists (worth picking up for the very cheap used price on that link).

It reminded me that I am far happier with the sound of the soloists and choral contributions of the Hannover boys in the Leonhardt performances (which I also prefer, as NA suggested he did too) than with that of the hootier, fruitier Tölz singers for Harnoncourt.

[vinteuil]

... I won't use Amazon on principle.

... well, on amazon.de the Ristenpart RIAS Bach cantatas cost £31-52, inclusive of postage.

[John Skelton]

If you won't use Amazon MDT's price is £44.95

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//AUDITE21415.htm