New Brahms Recordings

[Guest]

I arrived home yesterday after a few days away to find IRR on the mat. It included a rave review by Nigel Simeone of a new Brahms symphony cycle conducted by Andrew Manze. Then I noticed among the Chandos releases vol 1 of a projected Brahms complete piano music project by Barry Douglas. I'm considering buying both - not that I really need another Brahms symphony cycle. Could Manze possibly have anything to say in addition to Karajan, Rattle, Haitink, Norrington and Gardiner? Has anyone heard either recording yet?

(The temptation to impulse buy was easier to resist when I opened the rest of my post to find that I was overdrawn on my credit card!)

[Parry1912]

I arrived home yesterday after a few days away to find IRR on the mat. It included a rave review by Nigel Simeone of a new Brahms symphony cycle conducted by Andrew Manze.

You're supposed to preface that with 'Spoiler Alert'. I haven't read mine yet!

[Alison]

Trust Dave to spoil .....

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/manzes-brahms-symphonies-cerebration-over-musicianship/

[amateur51]

You're supposed to preface that with 'Spoiler Alert'. I haven't read mine yet!

I'm only now finishing January's and hope to zip through February's over Easter

What a lovely problem to have

[amateur51]

Trust Dave to spoil .....

http://www.classicstoday.com/review/...-musicianship/

I do get the impression that Dave's relationship with at least one of his parents was/is deeply troubled - "Look at meee, Ma!"

I'll be interested to read the IRR review - when I get there

[Alison]

Have to say I have much greater faith in Professor Simeone.

[Barbirollians]

I agree. Hurwitz's reference are the Levine recordings ! That says a lot.P

[DoctorT]

You're supposed to preface that with 'Spoiler Alert'. I haven't read mine yet!

Sorry! I promise not to do it again.

Here are a couple of contrasting reviews of the new Barry Douglas CD:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/reviews/h8pn

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/mar/29/brahms-barry-douglas-cd-review

[jayne lee wilson]

OK!

Brahms Symphony No.3 Helsingborg SO/Manze (CPO, lossless download)

This is a very good Brahms 3rd, and if I don't hear it as so radically great and so freshly read as the IRR reviewer, it may only reflect my experience of Mackerras' SCO readings, or most of all a rather overlooked COE cycle with Berglund, as interpretations which have already renewed my responses to the work, and to Brahms interpretation generally.

The outer movements are swift, biting in their articulation and rhythmic impetus, set close in a warm, slightly dry acoustic, very clear but with woodwind detail nicely blended. A true Brahms palette. I don't find the tempo fluctuations (why not simply call it rubato) either as disturbing as Hurwitz does, or as original as Simeone implies; they worked for me, subtle and convincing. Others may object to the quickening of pace at the start of the repeat in (i), but I can't see why Hurwitz (or anyone) should find cause for protest here; isn't it a good thing to do more with a repeat than just repeat it?
The orchestra's strings are never going to sound as distinguished as those in Dresden or Berlin, or Vienna; but they are full enough, and warm enough, if a little plain-spoken under this conductor. Just occasionally, as in the slower first section of the finale, I found the phrasing too literal - and I sometimes felt that the pianissimos weren't exactly that. Manze's Brahms speaks out, loud and clear.

Where the reading will draw more attention, controversy perhaps, is in the inner movements: at 10'18, the andante is nearly 2 minutes longer than Berglund or Sanderling, and sounds distinctly slow - an adagio indeed. It is beautifully played, but I did wonder if the character of a darker, deeper slow movement was being imposed upon the music, which for me feels more natural at a more flowing speed. With a slightly quicker and lighter approach to the poco allegretto, you see Manze's point - to distinguish more vividly the musical and emotional import of the two. Comparing Sanderling's Dresden poco allegretto (especially in one of the later, more refined remasterings) is to be aware of an evocative beauty and atmospheric mystery that Manze doesn't appear even to attempt; he's going his own way, and your reaction to it will evidently depend on how wedded you are to a more traditional texture and phrasing, or how open you are to a fresh, if less overtly expressive, approach.

It is possible that the SACD layer, if well enough reproduced, might freshen the sound a little more - but most SACDs are made from 24-bit pcm masters anyway, and I didn't feel the 16-bit sound to be obstructive or limited in any way. But when I compared the opening of (iv) in Berglund's COE reading (on CD), I was immediately struck by the greater refinement and cohesion of the latter ensemble, a beauty of sound and a more dramatic phrasing which never gets in the way of another swift and sharply articulated performance. I did prefer Berglund here.

A benefit of downloading is of course not having to spend £30 to find out for yourself! Both The Classical Shop and the excellent Presto Classical are offering the separate symphonies and movements in lossless pcm. And I would finally draw your attention once again to Richard Osborne's excellent "Collection" survey on Brahms 3rd in the April Gramophone - including the choice line, re. Gardiner's 2008 effort "it boasted tinder-dry sonorities and set a new land-speed record for the finale."

[Petrushka]

Jayne, Thanks for a very fine, typically well written review! You should offer your services to Gramophone forthwith.

I'm not currently in the market for another Brahms symphony cycle at the moment but your review is enough to have me scurrying off to reappraise the ones I do have.

[DoctorT]

Thanks undeed Jayne. I'm still tempted....

[jayne lee wilson]

Latest news, a further comment of sorts... I'm fascinated enough to have downloaded No.2 now... end up, financially, shooting myself in the foot here...
Try to listen.. well, busy few days ahead.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... or most of all a rather overlooked COE cycle with Berglund, as interpretations which have already renewed my responses to the work, and to Brahms interpretation generally..

Martin Wale at (the late, lamented) Seaford Music in Eastbourne rated the Berglund/COE Brahms cycle very highly, too, Jayne. Whenever a customer wanted "a Brahms cycle", he'd play them excerpts, they'd agree that it was a very fine set of performances ... and leave the shop with Abbado, Klemperer, Karajan or whoever else they'd read about in the Penguin Guide!

Excellent post, your #9. - Manze is turning from an exceptionally good Handel director into an equally fine "mainstream" conductor. He's conducting RVW 4 & 5 on R3 next Thursday evening (19th April) "Live from Glasgow".

[DublinJimbo]

I agree with others who've complimented Jayne on her review. I'm not sure. however, that it would tempt me to add Andrew Manze's recordings to my collection.

Currently, the Brahms set which makes me sit up and listen as new is from Marek Janowski and the Pittsburgh Orchestra (on Pentatone).

[AmpH]

I agree with others who've complimented Jayne on her review. I'm not sure. however, that it would tempt me to add Andrew Manze's recordings to my collection.

Currently, the Brahms set which makes me sit up and listen as new is from Marek Janowski and the Pittsburgh Orchestra (on Pentatone).

Totally agree with you about the Janowski / Pittsburgh Pentatone cycle DJ - as it happens I have been listening to no's 3 & 4 today along with the Haydn variations. I don't know the CoE / Berglund set but it sounds like it may be worth investigating.

All this Brahms talk has prompted me to plan a little Brahms Sym fest of my own for the weekend based around the LPO / Jochum ( EMI Forte ) and Halle / James Loughran cycles - the latter has always been a particular favourite of mine.