EMI Signature SACDs

[PJPJ]

Oddly, though, the Gramophone reviewer said that the HMV recordings were first rate! Presumably couldn't hear the low level noise because of turntable rumble! Not that the background noise is the major issue - I just like less brittle sound, or maybe my hearing isn't so good today.

Well, that's how I found them, too, both on the CD reissue a few years ago and on this latest. I've listened only to the 9th as yet (and via an SACD player), and think it sounds pretty damn good for a 50 year-old recording.

No, the recording isn't as wonderful as that given to Luisi (Sony SACD) or Janowski (PentaTone SACD), but those are recent high resolution affairs and in five channels. So why did I bother with another copy of the Schuricht? I enjoy the performances, and I think they were better performances than considered by a few reviewers at the time.

The oboe is one of the squeaky ones - I gather it's the instrument rather than the player - beloved of pre-1970s VPO recordings.

The Klemperer releases sound very well indeed - EMI were, of course, very experienced with recording in Abbey 1 and the Kingsway Hall. Remastering for the Japanese SACD market isn't going to convert these historic recordings into modern high fidelity issues to compete with the best Super Audio products, but they will present the material in as good a light as can reasonably be expected.

Elgar's Cello Concerto sounds better than ever to me via the SACD programme. The sound quality through an SACD player should be noticeably better than that through a CD player. On the other hand, the best remastering to SACD through the best player isn't going to make Fischer-Dieskau's earliest recordings sound as though they were made yesterday.

[PJPJ]

Had an enjoyable hour and a quarter or so this midday listening to Bruckner 8 under Schuricht. No audible hum on this SACD at this end dave2002.

The sound quality compared with VPO recordings of ten years before (Strauss/Krauss, for example) shows what improvements were made in that time. Fifty years after Schuricht was recorded standards are even higher, of course. When I started buying LPs as a schoolboy in 1966, recordings from 1916 were interesting but very unusual fare.....

[Dave2002]

I didn't say hum. The lowish frequency noises are very audible on my equpment, particularly at the start of the 2nd movement. it shouldn't be my kit, as there's no noise between tracks. Did you listen to the SACD or the CD layer?

I just interrupted my listening to Bloch string quartets to check this. If you listen at very low levels you won't notice, but if you turn the volume up a bit it should be very obvious. I'm not talking about very high volume levels either, just a tad.

i checked with headphones too - and the noise is still there at the start of each track, though as the music starts it gets less obvious. I stopped with the headphones though - this does sound rather involving - more so than with speakers. As I wrote earlier, I'll come back to this as an interpretation later. It may still be better than previous incarnations of this recording.

Unfortunately I can't check SACD easily right now, as my SACD player doesn't have a headphone socket, and I'd have to reconnect it back through another amp to test. Stupid that it won't output SACDs digitally, which would be easy for me.

[PJPJ]

Via SACD programme, and at high volume, I wasn't able to detect abnormal low frequency noise, whether it's hum or not. I'm not able to listen again until tomorrow.

[Alf-Prufrock]

I am not clear what is happening here with these SACDs. To me, SACDs are designed to be surround-sound discs. Most of the works being appraised here were surely never recorded as multi-channel items. There may be 8 or more tracks on the tape, but they were not designed to produce a surround sound effect. Or are the producers just producing 2 or 3-channel discs as in the RCA Living Stereo series? Most of them are, I agree, far superior to their CD predecessors.

But is there some artificial jiggery-pokery going on here? Can anyone reference an explanation from EMI as to exactly what they are doing to produce these new discs?

[PJPJ]

Had another listen, dave2002, this morning, at very high levels - still nothing detectable. I checked the CD layer as well, and am amazed even after all these years at the difference the high resolution SACD programme makes. (My speakers are very efficient at reproducing both ends of the spectrum.)

These transfers were made for the Japanese market, whose need for surround sound, I am led to believe, is even less than it is in the West. The Richter and Cziffra releases were quadraphonic LPs on first issue, but only the stereo masters were processed for this release as originally they were to be released only in Japan. I am hoping that EMI is persuaded to release more of the 100 EMI/Japan issues, and that, for example, Sawallish's Schumann cycle also has the four channel programme included.

EMI/Japan has also released a fair few modern recordings on SACD. In addition to some Martha Argerich (Chopin PCs from Montreal for one) there are many of Sir Simon's BPO recordings of the last few years. The vast majority of these have been released stereo only. Tchaikovsky Nutcracker, Mahler, Brahms, Holst Planets and so on, the latest being Bruckner 9 with the construction of the 4th movement as broadcast not that long ago. Japanese prices are 3000Y to 3300Y per disc. Postage from Japan is eye-wateringly expensive, and the buyer may very well be stung for VAT and duty, and the £8 processing fee this end, making each disc effectively in the £40 plus region.

While SACDs of new material are usually issued with surround mixes as well as stereo ones, the audio quality improvement even in stereo makes the SACD a worthwhile purchase for me - Sawallish's Schumann on stereo only SACD is preferable to no release at all.

EMI on Furtwangler remastering:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfA61_noOQQ

[Dave2002]

The low frequency noises are still there even in the SACD layer. They may seem less noticeable in SACD, and also if you don't have them pointed out. Could be traffic or other background noise. This has plagued other recordings over years, not just this one, though if it's electrical then it should have been optimised/filtered.

I'm not sure how many layers there are on this Schuricht recording, though I suspect only 2 - a 2 channel CD layer and a 2 channel SACD layer. Unlike some other SACDs I've got and/or seen, this EMI issue doesn't show the configurations, either in the booklet or on the disc. I have now tried it in 2 channel mode in all 3 configurations (CD 2,SACD 2, SACD multi) through my SACD player. I suppose I could check the output of the surround channels in multi-channel mode to see if there is anything there. It would have been helpful of EMI to provide some information - other companies manage it, usually showing the preferred loudspeaker layout options. The SACD has more ambience and reverberation I think, and probably sounds a bit sweeter. There is still some brittleness in the brass.

Schuricht's performance is growing on me, though sharp eyed readers will have noticed that I listened to Schuricht's Hamburg SO performance (Urania) recently, rather than this one. SACD owners could well like this one, though I'm not so sure that CD only users will feel the same. Of course previpus releases of this recording could have been really poor - I haven't got one to compare with.

Will EMI perhaps issue this or others in the series as a hi def download? Indeed, on a slight tangent, is any company yet providing multi-channel downloads? Is this a belated attempt to boost SACD sales, or is it a last fling before most companies switch to download only issues? Might still not be worth rushing out to buy an SACD player if you've not got one already!

[HighlandDougie]

T Indeed, on a slight tangent, is any company yet providing multi-channel downloads?

Chandos, via its download offshoot (The Classical Shop), offers a few of its titles as Surround Downloads ("FLAC 24-bit Surround Sound files"). I haven't checked which of their releases are available other than the J-E Bavouzet/BBC SO Debussy/Ravel/Massenet disc, which, as a download in this format will set you back £19.99. If the size of the 2L Trondheim Soloists Britten/Bartok surround download is anything to go by (my only experiment so far with multi-channel files), the files are likely to be 3GB+.

As PJPJ has pointed out, the European and Japanese markets for SACD player formats tend to differ in that for the latter it's about the best possible "audiophile" quality which usually means 2-channel. Hence the original Sony 2-Channel SACD only releases which were designed for a more supposedly purist audience than the multi-channel "home cinema" enthusiast. And hence some stratospherically expensive US or Japanese 2-channel only SACD players.

I have to confess that I have both kinds of set-up, with an original Sony SACD 2-channel player in my "audiophile" set-up (valve pre- and power-amps etc etc), and a multi-channel player with a surround system. I've got so used to 5-channel - and the quality of my new Primare player in surround SACD is so good - that I now find it a bit of disappointment when I find 'new' SACDs which are 2 channel only (the Exton Manfred Honeck Mahler 5 for instance). So, I live in hope that EMI will go multi-channel but, like PJPJ, am happy that we have them at all, even in 2-channel. And, speaking of which, the Beethoven/Brahms Concertos disc has just arrived in the post so I'm off to listen to it, albeit in lowly non-SACD.

[Stunsworth]

Indeed, on a slight tangent, is any company yet providing multi-channel downloads?

There's the issue of replay. Not all programs used to play the downloads are capable of supplying anything other than stereo. Certainly not iTunes for example.

[PJPJ]

....... And, speaking of which, the Beethoven/Brahms Concertos disc has just arrived in the post so I'm off to listen to it, albeit in lowly non-SACD.

Which is what I did with the Brahms concertos disc this afternoon. These Cleveland offerings were never considered great technically. The Double Concerto sounds reasonably well though the soloists are closer than I'd like, and the overall sound quality is better than the earlier CD releases. Unfortunately, no amount of remastering can rid the Violin Concerto's recording of several moments of distortion in the first and last movements. It is surprising that this wasn't noticed at the sessions - perhaps they were knocked for six by the superb playing.

I heard the Triple Concerto the other day - that's a joy all round despite what Richter apparently thought of the sessions.....

[Barbirollians]

Yes it is a great shame the recording quality does not match the performance - at times Oistrakh is jaw droppingly brilliant. He is just as marvellous with Klemperer though.

[mikealdren]

Yes it is a great shame the recording quality does not match the performance - at times Oistrakh is jaw droppingly brilliant. He is just as marvellous with Klemperer though.

and even better with Konwitschny

Mike

[HighlandDougie]

Having now had the chance to listen to the Elgar/Delius on SACD - and bearing in mind that the analog recordings date from the 1960s so that there is some hiss and a touch of orchestral congestion at times, the end result is surely a resounding vindication of EMI's decision to invest its resources in these issues. For me, the best of all (and it's all 'best', really) are the 'Sea Pictures' - just wonderful. Can EMI be persuaded to allow its SACD team to work its same magic on, say, Janet Baker/Sir JB's Mahler?

[Barbirollians]

I haven't got an SACD player but encouraged by an earlier poster that the CD layer on the du Pre/Baker Signature CDs was a step up on the earlier remastering of ASD 655 and by Amazon selling the album for £9.19 I decided to buy it.

The improvement is striking - it has the warmth of my LP with more air and clarity - and a touch more singalong a Barbirolli too .

I have only listened to the legendary du Pre Elgar recording and it comes up as fresh as paint - like hearing this wonderful performance all over again and in the finale I shed a tear . Magnificent.

[Dave2002]

There's the issue of replay. Not all programs used to play the downloads are capable of supplying anything other than stereo. Certainly not iTunes for example.

Not only a software player problem, but one would also need a multi-channel output device. Most probably a multi-channel sound card would be needed, though as many of these are produced for the games market the quality may not be as high as one could hope for.

I am unaware of any firm yet doing multi-channel streaming units, which would be similar to the Logitech Squeezeboxes, but with 4 or more channels.