Neglected masterworks

[Pabmusic]

The "quotes" from Brahms IV 2nd mvt as they appear in Stanford's III 3rd mvt are interesting from a chronological point of view. Brahms' work dates from 1886 and Stanford's from 1888 (and was performed at the very first regular concert ever given by the Concertgebouw Orchestra in november 1888), but the latter cannot have seen the score before completing the "Irish", leaving us with the question whether Stanford attended one of the first performances of Brahms' IV.

Stanford may well have seen a score of the Brahms before he started the 'Irish'. The chronology is:

25.10.85: First performance (in Meiningen) of Brahms 4 under von Bulow. Stanford is very interested, but is not present. Joachim keeps him well informed about that and later Berlin performances. Stanford tells Joachim that Richter has promised to programme it in London ‘in the summer’.

10.5.86: First British performance, at St James’s Hall, cond. Hans Richter. Stanford attends, and it is difficult to believe he isn’t shown the score by his friend Richter. Stanford begins the ‘Irish’ immediately, completing the first movement on 5 June.

mid-Feb. 87:There have been delays, but Stanford tells Richter he hopes to “have the symphony ready for you” soon, but insists that it be programmed as late as possible, to give him time to finish it.

April 87: Third and fourth movements finished.

27.6.87: First performance, at St James’s Hall, cond. Hans Richter.

Stanford was very sensitive about the similarity between a phrase in the third movement and one in the slow movement of the Brahms. He always insisted they were arrived at independently and that the ‘Irish’ one was taken from ‘The lament of the sons of Usnach’ in Petrie’s collection of folk tunes. He had a note to that effect put in the score. He also said that the two composers were working simultaneously - something that was palpably not true - as well as independently. Given the history and Stanford’s excitement over the Brahms symphony, it’s as difficult to accept this as it is to accept that RVW’s Sixth has nothing to do with WW2.

Apart from the Concertgebouw connexion, Mahler conducted it in New York in 1910. George Bernard Shaw’s view of the symphony was that it is “a record of fearful conflict between the aboriginal Celt and the Professor”.

[Roehre]

Many thanks Pabmusic.

[EdgeleyRob]

Stanford Symphonies - I recently picked up the 4CD Chandos set of Syms 1 - 7 with the Ulster Orch / Vernon Handley and have loved what was basically new music to me and which I don't recall hearing much about before . Surely they deserve a wider hearing ( as do Parry's Syms ) ? Does anyone else like these works ? Are there any other recordings of them ?

They certainly do deserve a wider hearing IMO,the Parry and Stanford symphonies (and chamber music)are an essential part of my collection.
There are lots of Stanford cds on Naxos.

[AmpH]

They certainly do deserve a wider hearing IMO,the Parry and Stanford symphonies (and chamber music)are an essential part of my collection.
There are lots of Stanford cds on Naxos.

Quite so Edgeley Rob. I have gained much musical pleasure from listening to the Stanford symphonies in particular recently and consider them to be works of real individual merit and stature ( no particular Brahmsian or other issues for me ) . They have certainly become an important part of my collection too and given the forces involved, I am looking forward to exploring the Naxos discs as well.

[Pabmusic]

...I am looking forward to exploring the Naxos discs as well.

As you have taken to Stanford so well, don't miss hearing these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stanford-Irish-Rhapsodies-Piano-Concerto/dp/B0000VM3XQ/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1332589847&sr=8-12

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stanford-Orchestral-Songs-C-V/dp/B000F9SZCQ/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1332589945&sr=8-8

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Finzi-Stanford-Dame-Thea-King/dp/B00005JJ3Q/ref=sr_1_92?ie=UTF8&qid=1332590060&sr=8-92

[umslopogaas]

I dont know if others will agree that Busoni's 'Doktor Faust' is neglected, but it's been described as his masterpiece and I cant remember when I last heard any of it on the radio, let alone a complete performance. I did go to a performance at ENO in 1986, but dont recall ever hearing of another. I have only one recording, on DG, conducted by Ferdinand Leitner, though apparently there are two others, conducted by Jordan and by Nagano. It is another work left incomplete, but he did write most of it and more than one completion has been made.

[aeolium]

Doktor Faust is neglected, umslopogaas, and I think it is a masterpiece. I went to that ENO production as well and thought it was excellent (and I have the Leitner DG recording). I have been hoping that WNO would mount a production but I suppose that they are worried about how many would be interested in seeing it. R3 rarely broadcasts anything by Busoni apart from the Bach Chaconne transcription, and the only extracts from Doktor Faust that are ever broadcast are usually the Sarabande and Cortège.

[Roehre]

the only extracts from Doktor Faust that are ever broadcast are usually the Sarabande and Cortège.

and that is because these were published separately as opus 51. A complete work is broadcast, hurrah

[aeolium]

Good point, Roehre. They still are the only extracts from Doktor Faust that are ever broadcast, though

[Pabmusic]

Doktor Faust is neglected, umslopogaas, and I think it is a masterpiece. I went to that ENO production as well and thought it was excellent (and I have the Leitner DG recording). I have been hoping that WNO would mount a production but I suppose that they are worried about how many would be interested in seeing it. R3 rarely broadcasts anything by Busoni apart from the Bach Chaconne transcription, and the only extracts from Doktor Faust that are ever broadcast are usually the Sarabande and Cortège.

There is this 74-minute concert version: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Busoni-Dokto...632863&sr=8-13

[Thomas Roth]

Most of Paul Hindemith´s music is neglected. Why is his Symphonic Dances never performed? Gorgeous music.

[Barbirollians]

Most of Paul Hindemith´s music is neglected. Why is his Symphonic Dances never performed? Gorgeous music.

I don't know them but I have to admit never having really got on with his music . Much of it has sounded as dreary as can be to me.

The exceptions are the violin concerto in the astonishing Oistrakh recording and Dennis Brain in the horn concerto - but I suspect those magicians may have played a part in why I have enjoyed those records.

[AmpH]

Thanks. I will have a listen to the first of your suggestions - I already have the other two.

[Suffolkcoastal]

Most of Paul Hindemith´s music is neglected. Why is his Symphonic Dances never performed? Gorgeous music.

I'll 2nd that, any MBs that don't normally respond to Hindemith should investigate. They are among his most invigorating and attractive works.

[Pabmusic]

I'll 2nd that, any MBs that don't normally respond to Hindemith should investigate. They are among his most invigorating and attractive works.

This is a good starter: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hindemith-Ma...748632&sr=8-10

It contains the Trauermusik, one of the more remarkable pieces. Hindemith was at the BBC studios when the news broke of the death of George V. Adrian Boult then locked Hindemith in a room for five hours until he produced this 9-minute piece for viola and orchestra, which he broadcast that evening with the BBC SO. Those were the days!